From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Aug 26 09:35:35 1991
Received: from julian.uwo.ca by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA01235) Mon, 26 Aug 91 09:35:31 EDT
Received: from relay.tek.com by julian.uwo.ca with SMTP;
	(id AA13779) Mon, 26 Aug 91 00:50:09 -0400
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA09955@relay.tek.com>; Sun, 25 Aug 91 21:05:06 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA02649; Sun, 25 Aug 91 21:03:27 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA22960; Sun, 25 Aug 91 21:00:30 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA11479; Sun, 25 Aug 91 21:00:25 PDT
Message-Id: <9108260400.AA11479@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        traveller@fantasci.uucp (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #230: Msgs 2810-2818
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 91 21:00:24 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Aug 25 21:00:20 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #230: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2810  23-Aug-91 "Robert S. Dean"  A Discussion from GEnie << I'm sending the fo
2811  23-Aug-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Mechinetools 3: Rifles << Machinetools 3: 7mm
2812  23-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au K'Kree Merchant Ship << Hi, Just thought I'd 
2813  23-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Black Globes and Ships and Ceiling Wax and Ca
2814  23-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Inertial Compensators << Hi, According to the
2815  24-Aug-91 Chris G. Sylvain  Address Changing: Attention PBEM << Hello, al
2816  24-Aug-91 William Henry Tim Re: (2814) Inertial Compensators << Although 
2817  25-Aug-91 jpb               Standardized guns and ammo << Recntly someone
2818  25-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Ask Dr. Science... Inertial Death << (It's ti

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2810
Date:     Fri, 23 Aug 91 11:32:36 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  A Discussion from GEnie

I'm sending the following without commenting to the final essay appended due 
to lack of time today.

Have fun!

Rob Dean

You can lead a Horde to water, but you can't make it drink....

- ------------------------------


The following discussion of Agility is from GEnie:

 ************
Topic 8  Sub: Traveller Q&A                         
Get the official answers to your questions. Answered by the writ-
ers/Designers of MegaTraveller.
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 331       Sat Aug 17, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 20:24 EDT

OK.  Stupid questions department, and I would appreciate  knowing 
whether any answers are official.  I've had this discussion  with 
various people on  the Internet Traveller Mailing List.

How do I calculate agility?  If I have a ship with a 100MW  power 
plant, a drive that uses 60MW, 5MW of parasitic power  (controls, 
etc.)  and  30MW of life support, with no weapons (just  to  keep 
discussion simple) how much power do I use in the agility  calcu-
lation?

Preferred  answers on the TML are 5MW (what's left  after  every-
thing else is powered), 65MW (what's left after everything except 
the  maneuver drive is powered), and 60MW (the maximum  input  to 
the drive, regardless of any 5MW of left over power).

MY opinion is 60...but I could be wrong.

Rob Dean
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 332       Sun Aug 18, 1991
C.BUSH3 [Clay]               at 01:55 EDT

   5 MW. (Short and simple answer.)
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 333       Sun Aug 18, 1991
S.OLSON4                     at 14:34 
EDT

Clay's right, 5 is the amount you use for calculating agility.

Scott
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 336       Wed Aug 21, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 18:34 
EDT

My  cohort in crime on the Internet TML, Scott  Kellogg,  pleaded 
with  me to repost this fairly long message that we  concocted  a 
few  weeks ago on the subject of spaceship agility.  Please  bear 
with me...we were a little surprised at the short '5MW of course-
'answer  uptopic,  so figured that it would best for you  to  see 
where we were coming from.

Hope this uploads OK....

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1991 14:22 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: (2729) Revised Agility
Calculation Formula

<Text of TML Message 2729 deleted>

 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 337       Wed Aug 21, 1991
S.OLSON4                     at 20:21 EDT
 
 Rob,

    Hmmmmm....   I had a rather long and heated  discussion/argu-
ment  with Joe about this type of a topic a couple years ago.   I 
was  holding  that Agility should be limited by manuever,  but  I 
lost  (temporarily, anyway).  The major difference  between  High 
Guard  and MT is that Agility and Manuever are no longer  related 
AT ALL.  Your ability to manuever doesn't affect your agility, or 
vice versa.  The old disengagement rules made no sense when  they 
were  written, let alone now: you disengage by running away  from 
the  enemy,  not  by turning tight circles.   If  you're  turning 
faster than I am, but I'm faster, you can only get away IF I lose 
contact with you.

    Now, if you WANT to chop your manuever capability to increase 
your agility, that's fine, but excess power means what's said  in 
the  last sentence: "Excess power is the powerleft over from  the 
power  plant  after  all the crafts other  components  have  been 
powered."  Looks clear enough to me.

    Where did you get that "when the ship is in emergency status, 
the ship suddenly goes to agility=2"?  I can't find anything that 
suggests that result.

    "Double-Dipping" makes sense and would be legal as I read the 
rules:  nothing  prevents you from parceling  out  the  available 
power  in whatever manner you see fit, AS LONG AS YOU  DON'T  USE 
THE SAME MW IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE. After all, that's like getting
something for nothing.....

              Scott

 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 338       Wed Aug 21, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 21:06  EDT

 Where  I  come  from (-8, when it says "after  all  the  craft's 
_other_"  components have been powered", I have to  wonder--Other 
than what?  Given that on p.94 right column of my printing of the 
Ref's Manual the Emergency Agility rule says that I can cut power 
to  my  weapons and gain an agility equal to  my  manuever  drive 
rating, I was left with the impression that agility had something 
to do with maneuver. (-8

As  someone who cut my teeth on vector movement  in  Triplanetary 
(in  1976), I _know_ that a rotating ship is a ballistic, not  an 
evading, target, so I reject the current 'explanation' for agili-
ty  the same way I reject the maneuver rule that says that I  can 
move any number of hexes up to my current speed or circle in  the 
same  hex.  Give me a break... we have to accept a  few  'Physics 
Nullifiers' (tm) to play this game, but not that one. Anyway,  by 
the rules I have, what Scott says is true.  If I have a  merchant 
ship  with no weapons, I can  declare an emergency agility  equal 
to my maneuver rating, which has nothing to do with breaking  off 
under the current hex grid combat rules.

I  have no strong objection to going off in my own little  corner 
and  playing the way I like, but I hate to see things  like  this 
crop  up  in what is supposed to be a (generally)  reality  based 
game.

Rob Dean
 ------------

The following is an email message from GEnie:

Item    8057512                 91/08/22        03:26
From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich
To:     R.DEAN14                        Robert S. Dean

cc:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

Sub: Agility in MT

    THE FOLLOWING IS AN ARTICLE FROM SS&V #1:

                       AGILITY
                   By Bryan Borich
                   With thanks to
                     Mike Mikesh

    [This discussion took place prior to the development of SoPM1 
and therefore, there might be some conflict with the presumptions 
made  here that haven't been fully analyzed in relation  to  that 
book, though some updating has been attempted].

    When  Megatraveller  came  out, a change in  the  ship  rules 
occurred  concerning  maneuver  drives and  the  ship's  agility.  
Previous  to MT, these two abilities tended to  intertwine  (i.e. 
there  was  a  strong relationship between a  ship's  ability  to 
maneuver  and it's ability to dodge, reflected by it's  agility).  
In MT ship design this connectivity between the two now no longer 
occurs,  a  ship's agility has no relationship to  it's  maneuver 
drive.

    This  alteration tended to cause some initial  concern  among 
designer's  since reasoning tended to reside with the  idea  that 
agility and ability to maneuver should be intertwined.

    A  way around this problem was given by considering  the  way 
maneuver drives worked and how agility works and then considering 
inertial compensators as a possible solution.

    According to SoPM1 inertial compensators are directed by  the 
main  computer  in response to normal ship  inertia  from  moving 
about  and maneuvering.  Inertial compensators that are  involved 
in this process are initially available at TL 10.

    When one looks at the effect of maneuver drives installed  on 
a  vessel one notices that the mass of the ship has no effect  on 
the  drives  ability to propel the vessel, this is of  course  an 
advantage  of using either gravitic or thruster technology.   Now 
taking a look at the design of a ship's agility, the ship's  mass 
plays an important role here, therefore the heavier the ship  the 
less agility it tended to display (can't go below zero though).

    Taking  these things into account a theory occured  that  as-
sumed  that  a more primitive form of  inertial  compensators  is 
built  into  the ships as part of the maneuver  drives  and  hull 
structural  members.  These inertial compensators are  simple  in 
design  and are available at TL9 (in actuality the major  differ-
ence between the TL9 and TL10 compensators is the computer  elec-
tronics and the fine tuning necessary, requiring that environmen-
tal  compensators  be built through the entire ship where  it  is 
needed to protect the crew and cargo).

    These  structural  compensators  have a  limited  ability  to 
negate the
mass  of a vessel while trying to use agility however because  of 
insufficient power levels for the basic unit.  By increasing  the 
power  however, added ability to move in different directions  is 
added,  thus increasing the vessel's "agility".  This does  cause 
more  stress to the vessels structure however and makes  it  more 
difficult for the Environmental compensators to dampen the maneu-
vers involved.

    Inertial compensators still have a limit as to their  ability 
to  negate mass, and when this is exceeded (which does not  occur 
under  normal speed and mass considerations that occur with  cur-
rent ship design, this is also why maneuver 6 cannot be exceeded, 
as  at  that point you would need to  continually  overdrive  the 
structural  inertial  compensators and thus burn them  out),  one 
needs  to  apply  more power, therefore you still  run  into  the 
lightspeed problem (needing infinite energy to move the  infinite 
mass essentially).

    In  an  actual emergency situation, a vessel  could  jury-rig 
controls  bypassing the normal energy conduits and feeding  extra 
power into the compensators (always presuming the ship had enough 
power that could be diverted from other uses).

    To jury-rig a bypass,
    Difficult, 10 minutes, Engineering, Education, Hazardous

    Bypassing  involves  the transfer of power  from  one  source  
(such  as a weapons system, life support system,  staterooms,  or 
similar system) to another.

(C)  Bryan Borich 1990

    (Excuse  the  poor  quality of the writing,  I  was  probably 
rushing  and trying to do to many things at the same time when  I 
threw it together)

    Feel  free  to  post the above to the TML,  and  include  the 
disclaimer.

=END=

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2811
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Mechinetools 3: Rifles
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 17:40:06 MET DST

  Machinetools 3: 7mm and 9mm Rifles TL 4-13


Bolt Action Rifle 7mm

   This is the type of rifles that were common in the Terran armies during 
first and second World War. Typical examples are the Springfield 1903, the 
KAR-98K and the Nagant M1891/30. They were replaced somewhat by semi 
automatics just before, during or after WWII, but kept hanging on as civilian 
hunting rifles. All these rifles uses clips of 5 rounds, but internal magazines
are not uncommon in early military rifles or civilian weapons.

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
4  Rifle 5   4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 1.00 4.85 979  0.75 -1  2 1/4
   Clip  5                                           0.02 22
   Lead  5   4/3  3                                  0.12 2.3
   HP    5   2/3  4                                  0.12 3.5

5  Rifle 5   4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 1.00 4.32 969  0.50 -1  2 1/4
   Clip  5                                           0.02 22
   Lead  5   4/3  3                                  0.10 2.0
   HP    5   2/3  4                                  0.10 3.0

6  Rifle 5   4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 1.00 3.93 988  0.50 -1  1 1/4
   Clip  5                                           0.02 22
   Lead  5   4/3  3                                  0.08 1.9
   HP    5   2/3  4                                  0.08 2.9
   AP    5   6/2  3                                  0.07 3.8

7  Rifle 5   4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 1.00 3.46 977  0.50 -1  1 1/3
   Clip  5                                           0.01 22
   Lead  5   4/3  3                                  0.07 1.9
   HP    5   2/3  4                                  0.07 2.9
   AP    5   6/2  3                                  0.06 3.8


Rifle 7mm

   These weapons are the approximate equivalents of fairly modern semi-
automatic battle rifles like the semi-auto version of the Fabrique Nationals 
FAL. They fire 7mm 8g bullets at approximately 850m/s. The TL9 APDS is a 2mm 
steel penetrator that is fired at 1500m/s due to it's low total weight. All 
designs of TL8 and above are bullpups.

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
6  Rifle 20  4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 1.00 4.32 1411 0.50 -1  1 1/4
   Clip  20                                          0.07 63
   Lead  20  4/3  3                                  0.33 7.7
   HP    20  2/3  4                                  0.33 12
   AP    20  6/2  3                                  0.27 15

7  Rifle 20  4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 1.00 3.73 1386  0.50 -1  1 1/4
   Clip  20                                          0.06 62
   Lead  20  4/3  3                                  0.28 7.0
   HP    20  2/3  4                                  0.28 10
   AP    20  6/2  3                                  0.23 14

9  Rifle 20  4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 0.60 3.14 1424  0.50  0  1 1/3
   Clip  20                                          0.05 64
   Lead  20  4/3  3                                  0.27 7.1
   HP    20  2/3  4                                  0.27 10
   AP    20  6/2  3                                  0.21 14
   DS    20  7/2  3                                  0.16 21
   APDS  20 11/2  3                                  0.16 43


Rifle 7mm Caseless

   I'm not aware of any contemportary semi-auto caseless weapon, but it would 
be madness to keep using the same old technology on higher TL's. All these are 
bullpup designs. TL10+ designs are gyrostabilized and the internal batteries 
can run they gyros continiously for 4 hours. The TL13 version has 280g of dead 
weight due to recoil purposes. This can be replaced with target designators, 
smartgun electronics, and so on.
   (A really strange type of ammunition would be a HPDS, ie a discarding sabot 
round where the thin core is designed to splinter inside the target. I'm not 
certain, but it seems legal (ruleswise) to me, but it is probably very illegal 
(lawwise). For a 7mm rifle, a HPDS would have a Pen/Att of 4/2 and inflict 4 
points of damage. It costs 4.5 times as much as a lead round and weighs as a 
DS)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Rifle 40  4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 0.70 3.96 1397 0.75  0  1 1/3
   Clip  40                                          0.08 88
   Lead  40  4/3  3                                  0.38 28
   HP    40  2/3  4                                  0.38 42
   AP    40  6/2  3                                  0.27 56

9  Rifle 40  4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 0.65 3.21 1424 0.50  0  1 1/3
   Clip  40                                          0.08 90
   Lead  40  4/3  3                                  0.38 28
   HP    40  2/3  4                                  0.38 43
   AP    40  6/2  3                                  0.27 57
   DS    40  7/2  3                                  0.15 85
   APDS  40 11/2  3                                  0.15 170

10 Rifle 40  4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   R+G  0.60 2.91 2138 0.50  0  1 1/2
   Clip  40                                          0.08 135
   Lead  40  4/3  3                                  0.37 28
   HP    40  2/3  4                                  0.37 43
   AP    40  6/2  3                                  0.26 57
   HE    40  2/1  5                                  0.14 85
   DS    40  7/2  3                                  0.14 85
   APDS  40 11/2  3                                  0.14 170

12 Rifle 40  4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   R+G  0.50 3.08 1319 0.50  0  1 1/2
   Clip  40                                          0.07 83
   Lead  40  4/3  3                                  0.37 29
   HP    40  2/3  4                                  0.37 43
   AP    40  6/2  3                                  0.26 57
   HE    40  2/1  5                                  0.14 86
   DS    40  7/2  3                                  0.14 86
   APDS  40 11/2  3                                  0.14 172

13 Rifle 40  4/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   R+G  0.45 2.56 1201 0.50  0  1 1/2
   Clip  40                                          0.07 75
   Lead  40  4/3  3                                  0.37 29
   HP    40  2/3  4                                  0.37 43
   AP    40  6/2  3                                  0.26 57
   HE    40  2/1  5                                  0.14 86
   DS    40  7/2  3                                  0.14 86
   APDS  40 11/2  3                                  0.14 172


Rifle 9mm

   Medium-heavy hunting rifles. They fire either a 9mm 17g bullet at 820m/s or 
a 3mm steel penetrator at 1500m/s I frankly don't know about any real-world 
counterpart to these either, perhaps some heavy sniper rifle:( but they are in 
the Imperial Encyclopedia so here they are:

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
7  Rifle 10  5/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 1.10 5.85 2022 0.50 -2  1 2/5
   Clip  10                                          0.06 64
   Lead  10  5/3  3                                  0.29 4.8
   HP    10  3/3  4                                  0.29 7.2
   AP    10  7/3  3                                  0.23 9.6

9  Rifle 10  5/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 0.70 4.74 2041 0.50 -1  1 1/3
   Clip  10                                          0.06 64
   Lead  10  5/3  3                                  0.28 4.8
   HP    10  3/3  4                                  0.28 7.2
   AP    10  7/3  3                                  0.22 9.6
   DS    10  8/2  3                                  0.16 14
   APDS  10 13/2  3                                  0.16 29


Rifle 9mm Caseless

   Caseless versions of the above. All are bullpup and the TL10+ versions are 
gyrostabilized. The high recoil force the TL12 version to have 520g and the 
TL13 version to have 1240g of dead weight.
   (As an example, a TL13 smartgun sensor that fits well inside the TL13 9mm 
Caseless rifle will give a +4 to hit against moving objects out to 820m, +2 
out to 1640m and cost 230 Cr)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Rifle 10  5/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 0.75 5.78 2022 0.50 -1  1 1/4
   Clip  10                                          0.04 64
   Lead  10  5/3  3                                  0.20 9.6
   HP    10  3/3  4                                  0.20 14
   AP    10  7/3  3                                  0.14 19

9  Rifle 10  5/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   Rifl 0.70 4.71 2022 0.50 -1  1 1/4
   Clip  10                                          0.04 64
   Lead  10  5/3  3                                  0.20 9.6
   HP    10  3/3  4                                  0.20 14
   AP    10  7/3  3                                  0.14 19
   DS    10  8/2  3                                  0.08 29
   APDS  10 13/2  3                                  0.08 58

10 Rifle 10  5/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   R+G  0.60 4.08 2723 0.50 -1  1 1/3
   Clip  10                                          0.04 86
   Lead  10  5/3  3                                  0.19 9.6
   HP    10  3/3  4                                  0.19 14
   AP    10  7/3  3                                  0.13 19
   HE    10  3/2  5                                  0.07 29
   DS    10  8/2  3                                  0.07 29
   APDS  10 13/2  3                                  0.07 58

12 Rifle 10  5/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   R+G  0.55 3.77 2622 0.50  0  1 1/2
   Clip  10                                          0.04 82
   Lead  10  5/3  3                                  0.19 9.6
   HP    10  3/3  4                                  0.19 14
   AP    10  7/3  3                                  0.13 19
   HE    10  3/2  5                                  0.07 29
   DS    10  8/2  3                                  0.07 29
   APDS  10 13/2  3                                  0.07 58

13 Rifle 10  5/3  3  Dst  -   -  Med Med   R+G  0.50 3.77 2517 0.50  0  1 1/2
   Clip  10                                          0.04 79
   Lead  10  5/3  3                                  0.19 9.6
   HP    10  3/3  4                                  0.19 14
   AP    10  7/3  3                                  0.13 19
   HE    10  3/2  5                                  0.07 29
   DS    10  8/2  3                                  0.07 29
   APDS  10 13/2  3                                  0.07 58

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Med ett sjyst ja"rnro"r sla^r man va"rlden med ha"pnad!"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2812
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1991 12:45 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: K'Kree Merchant Ship

Hi,

Just thought I'd try to see how K'kree starships translate to
MegaTrav.


K'kree Merchant TL15 "Xeekr'kir!" Class

CraftID:	K'kree Merchant TL15, MCr 1570.153
Hull:	(5400/13500) Disp=6000, Config=7SL, Armor=40G,
		Load=28990, Unload=30723
Power:	(49/98) Fusion=13155MW, Dur=30/90
Loco:	(108/216) Maneuver=1, (162/324) Jump=2, MaxAccel=2.74,
		NOE=190, Cruise=750, Max=1000, Agility=2
Comm:	Radio=System*2
Sensors:	A-EMS(Planet), P-EMS(Interstel)
		ActObjScn=Dif	ActObjPin=Dif	PasEnScn=Simp
Off:		HPoints=12
Def:		DefDM+4
Control:	Computer Mod2*3, LrgHoloDisp*2, HoloHUD*21, HoloLink*21
Accom:	Crew=44(Command=5, Bridge=10, Engineer=15, Maintain=12,
		Stewards=6, Medic=1) Passenger=43, 'Staterooms'=87,
		BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, G-Plates, I-Comps
Other:	Fuel=16885.8kl(1 jump-2+30dy), Cargo=550.5Kl,
		Scoops, Fuel Pure=57.2hr, ObjSize=Lrg, EmLevel=Mod
Remarks:	The standard K'kree merchant as found in alien module 2
and described extensivly in challenge 28.
	The ship is owned and operated by a merchant family.  The
command, maintainance, steward crews are normally considered
'passengers'.
	In the Two Tousand Worlds freight charges are 10 times
normal, because of the huge operating costs just to transport
550Kl of cargo.
	There are five engineering robots (Master +4 slaves as found
in 101 Robots) in the crew (counted above reducing the organic
engineering crew to 10.
	Note that there are no 'staterooms' as there is only
one communal room for the entire crew.  An allowance of 648Kl is
made for each K'kree aboard at a cost of .8Mcr (Twice the cost of
a normal stateroom and 12 times the size.   Fuel purification
takes 2 standard K'Kree days.  The ship is not normally armed,
but there is sufficient power and controls set aside for 12
turrets of triple beam variety.  Any mix is possible, but that is
the maximum allowed.

Scott Kellogg
Those who live by the Horde will die by the Horde...

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2813
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1991 12:46 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Black Globes and Ships and Ceiling Wax and Cabbages and Kings

Hi,

I wrote this a long time ago when the thread of conversation was
still going.  I just found it in my files and thought I'd send it
in anyway.  Hope you don't mind.
Scott 

Black Globes, and Ships and Ceiling Wax and Cabbages and Kings.

	The wind rose in a freezing scream that chilled even through
their battle dress as Boer and Zdeldi leapfrogged under cover up
the side of the mountain	toward the rising white tornado that
emminated from the valley on the other side.  The plume rose
hundreds of kilometers into the sky of Tool's World in a gigantic
mushroom cloud.
	Boer was the first to reach the summit and he crawled the
last meter to prevent being sillouhetted at the mountain crest. 
Zdeldi watched as the familliar Zhodani battle dress froze
scanning the valley below.  "What is it?" he growled.  The Aslan
from Darrian crawled the interveneing space and turned his battle
dress sensors on the jetting white plume.
	Infra red signature was cold.  Really cold.  The plume read
out as a stream of liquid air vaporizing as it screamed up toward
orbit.  Zdeldi scanned for the source of the jet but could detect
nothing.  It rose as a perfectly round plume from the valley
below.
	"Hloch, are you getting this?" called Boer over their
scrambled circuit.
	In the G-Carrier, Hloch examined the pictures relayed by the
teams sensors, "Clear view, suggest you attempt psionic
penetration."
	Zdeldi reflected on the fortune of serving in the Darrian
Navy Special Arm.  His security clearance required that he be
psionically trained.  Concentration, was difficult in the roaring
wind, but he suddenly was inside the mind of someone in there. 
Two men, undoubtedly the ones the team had followed were arguing
with a third man in there who's mind Zdeldi could not touch. 
Zdeldi looked through the mind of one of them and saw the bridge
of a ship.
	"It's a ship." he announced quietly.
	"Boer," called Hloch.  "Use your clairvoyance and get a
picture of their bridge.  I think I know what's going on...
Zdeldi, read Boer's mind and transmit the picture to me...."


	Hloch looked at the strangely assembled crew as he briefed
them.  Ael Yael, Imperials, Zhodani, Darrians, Vargr and Aslan
all united against a common but very powerful foe.  "Ladies and
Gentlemen," he began, pointing to the picture of the white plume. 
"What we are flying against is a black globe."
	Confused faces in the audience looked at each other.
	"A black globe is essentually a field which absorbs energy. 
ALL energy:  light, heat, radiation, kinetic, the strong and weak
forces of nuclei AND gravitational.
	Now, some of you may or may not have heard of gravitons. 
Gravitons are particles very like photons.  Photons are pretty
easy to understand.  An particle with a certain amount of energy
emmits a photon.  This photon doesn't have mass, but it does have
energy.  This little packet of energy strikes another particle
giving it more energy.
	Right.  Now gravitons are emmitted by particles with mass
and they are absorbed by other particles.  This action pulls the
particle back toward the particle back toward the first one.  The
farther you get away from those masses the fewer gravitons from
it you will intercept.  Thus the 1/R squared relation; just like
photons.
	The thing about gravitons is that they don't often effect
other particles:  Very small cross section.  That's why when you
stand on top of something you don't weigh any less.  Most of the
gravitons pass right through what ever you stand on and a few
interact with you.  You also emmit gravitons so any that do
interact with you won't be missed by anyone above you.
	Now, I see Alaya shaking her head.  Ok, so I've simplified
the quantum theory of gravity.  Please remember that while Boer
here is a great teleport commando, he's had no formal scientific
training.
	Ok, now the black globe absorbs not just the gravitons an
object of its size and mass would normally, but ALL of them that
would pass through it.  A black globe in a gravitational well
will create a zone of zero gravity above it.
	Thus, above the ship out there in the mountains is a pillar
of zero gravity.  The atmosphere in this pillar has equal
potential energy therefore equal pressure.  The air is drawn in
at the base and expands in the upper atmosphere.  That is our
tornado.
	However, the huge number of gravitons being absorbed by that
globe means one hell of a lot of energy.  If you put a space
craft in the zero gravity zone all you would have to do is give
it a shove and it would just drift up to orbit.  And with the
gale winds blowing you wouldn't even need to shove very hard. 
THAT is the kind of energy that is absorbed by a black globe.
	From the conversation Zdeldi overheard inside the ship we
know the energy influx is being used for crystal manufacture. 
Those blasted crystals must be hard.  The energy used to create
them is enormous.
	All of this is irrelevent to our mission, but you need to
know what we're taking on.  Back when I first started out as a
naval architect I worked on the 'Thunder Fox' class:  black
globes.  A number of us working on the project speculated on
black globes close to a planet surface.  Testing and models said
that at tech level fifteen,  you can't operate a globe below low
orbit.  Obviously, these folks are operating at a very high
level.  But even they must be under a strain.  Absorbing all the
gravity, and sitting in what must be a rising lake of liquified
gasses condensed by the absolute zero black globe.
	Now.  That ship could be very easy to destroy.  If we bring
the 'Alexandria's lasers to bear on it from orbit they might be
forced to raise the globe up full.  Right now, according to the
densitometer readings, it's flickering at a rate of seventy three
percent so they are only absorbing a fraction of the energy that
they might be.  If they absorbed the full force of gravitational
energy, they would undoubtedly overload their energy sinks and
blow the ship to tiny tiny pieces.
	Problem:  the 'Alexandria' being only a scoutship doesn't
have much firepower.  And besides we need information.  That ship
can answer a lot of questions.
	The weapon we have best suited for the attack is psionics. 
Telepathy and clairvoyance seem to work through the globe.  This
may be because it is only flickering, but they might work even if
the globe is fully raised."
	Hloch turned and looked his audience in the eye
"Suggestions?"
	Boer scratched his beard as he considered the problem. 
"Well, if we want to shut down the globe there are two ways I can
think of.  One, we could try a scrambler mission, using
clairvoyance and telekinesis to operate the black globes
controls.  Or, two a teleport commando operation to get inside
and shut it down.  Problem is, I don't know a thing about globe
controls.  I might blow the ship."
	Ryke Poe spoke up, "I've operated globe equipped ships in
the IISS."
	Zdeldi turned to the imperial scout.  "You aren't psionic,
but if I act as a telepathic relay we can direct Boer and Alaya
and the other teleports what to do."
	Alaya shook her head.  "We don't know what how the globe is
going to effect psi ops.  I would advise against trying to
teleport in without more information.  I think the scrambler idea
is safer.  Besides, if someone hit the wrong switch and the ship
does go up, at least our people won't be inside.  Once the globe
is down, we send in the teleport troops and they let in the
rest...."

Scott Kellogg

PS.	A while ago, someone accused the black globe of being a
perpetual motion machine.  Well the answer to this is quite
simple:  OF COURSE IT'S A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE!!!
By absorbing heat the way it does, it violates the third law of
thermodynamics so by definition is is a perpetual motion machine. 
The projected heat death of the universe is 0.4 degrees kelvin
(or is it 4 degrees kelvin?)  Anyway that is an amount of heat
that would be absorbed by the black globe.
	Rob Dean says he doesn't like them.  Frankly, I don't
either.  That is why I am adamantly in favor of their absorbing
gravitational energy:  It puts severe limits on what they can do!

Particle Man,
Particle Man,
Doin' the things a particle can!
What's he like?
It's not important.
Particle Man

Is he a dot?
Or is he a speck?
When he's underwater does he get wet?
Or does the water get
him instead?
Nobody knows.
Particle Man		Particle Man, by They Might Be Giants

	"Dr. Feynman, what exactly is a particle?"
	"You know, I always wanted someone to ask me that.  As far
as I can figure, it has a tendancy to exist!"

'And they shall beat their Hordes into plowshares...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2814
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1991 13:27 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Inertial Compensators

Hi,

According to the folks on GEnie, agility works like this:
(assuming I am understanding them correctly)
Rob, Can you please forward this to them?  They might be
interested.

The Inertial compensators nullify the mass of the people,
equipment, objects, cargo etc inside the ship.  Therefore
a ship has a mass of zero (or near zero) and then the
ship is capable of bursts of (nearly) infinite acceleration.
{I may be reading this wrong so I will assume that we are
only nullifying the effects of inertia, not mass}
[That way we only half completely destroy Newton's laws]

Ok, Now what happens when a mechanical device is placed inside
this hypothetical mass nullifying field...  Well, a mechanical
watch will instantly wind down.  Any pendulum which depends
upon it's mass and inertia will instantly fail.  A gyroscope
will not work at all. {It works because of it's angular momentum
but with no inertia, it will not work at all.}

What about something dear to the heart of most trav players:  a
Gun?  Well, no inertia...  How is a bullet with no inertia
going to hurt anyone?  Nope, a bullet with the inertia of a feather
thrown REALLY hard is not going to do it.  ;-)
KE weapons are useless.

Well, What about the good old human body?  Hmm, inertialess blood?
Bones with no inertia?  Sounds worse than micro-gravity for the body.
A few days in such a field and the body will weaken from lack of
exercise worse than any crew ever exposed to micro-gravity.
	What about on the moleqular level?  Suddenly every atom and
molequel in the body has no inertia.  Will normal chemical processes
still work?  I doubt it. (I'm a physicist not a chemist)  I am afraid
that if you change one physical law, all the universe will come
tumbling down around your ears.  The human body is adapted to have certain
chemical reactions going on in the body constantly.  If you affect the
physical world with some sort of field, you will change the chemical reactions
going on.  I'm afraid if you entered the field you would probably drop dead
instantly (oops no inertia... you would float dead instantly)

How do I explain inertial compensators?  Well, as I see them they are
grav plates which project a field in the opposite direction of the
ship's drive.  There are auxillury ones in the other axes of the ship to
compensate for lateral and rotational movements.  (the area around the
pilot's couch has a weakened field allowing the pilot to feel how the
ship is moving without getting flattened by 6G's.
	Control of such plates is simple.  The main drive is computer
controlled.  The computer merely directs the compensators to create a field
of equal and opposite strength to the acceleration of the ship.
So when the ship is acclerating a 6G's an object in the ship will be
subjected to the acceleration and this is cancelled by the artificial grav
plates of the inertial compensators also putting out 6G's.
	This is a much SIMPLER method of cancelling out the effects of the
ship's drive.  It doesn't violate any new laws of physics.  (other than
anti-grav) and it doesn't impose a 'field' which affects the normal
laws of physics in ways that are not well understood, but will certainly
result in the death of any and all passengers aboard.

Scott S. Kellogg
Anyone wishing to discuss this with me please send me e-mail and
I would be glad to call you telephonically (provided it is'nt TOO
long distance... I'm only an underpaid grad student after all)

Look out!  The Horde!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2815
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 91 00:13:21 -0400
From: Chris G. Sylvain <cgs@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Address Changing: Attention PBEM

Hello, all

I am going back to the wonders of second year law school, so as of
Saturday, the TML and PBEM stuff should go to my old address, which
was (and is) npsylv@wmvm1.cc.wm.edu

Thanx.

nps

Support the Second Amendment!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2816
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1991 15:22:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (2814) Inertial Compensators

Although I don't use MT, the way I handle inertia-less drives (which
seems like what the compensators do) is by creating an acceleration
field with no propogation.

ie- The 'inertia-less' drive in my SF games AREN'T truly inertia or
acceleration-less, they only seem that way on a macroscopic scale
because velocity is increased for all atoms simultaneously. The
acceleration one can use depends on the fineness of this velocity field,
as too high acceleration will start fusing atoms...

In the world where I first developed this idea their first field dumped
KE to every atom simultaneously. This had one huge problem- acceleration
of each atom was inversely proportional to it's mass... so at very high
accelerations, you would get a chromotogram of a ship... hydrogen in
front, scaling down to heavier atoms in back... :)

The ships of that period used massive cylinders of some pure substance
(usually iron, for a variety of reasons) attached by heavy struts to the
rest of the ship. Acceleration depended on the strength of the struts,
and had none of the useful effects of 'inertia-less'.

It was, however, reactionless. Or at least seemed that way. In reality,
it emited something like anti-gravity, with a propagation about light
speed, which pushed or pulled nearby bodies. Again a bit limiting.
Combinations of the technologies created reaction drives of ultra-high
efficiency, kinetic shields, which propogated impacts as ship-wide
accelerations, etc.

- -Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2817
From: jpb <jpb%umbio.med.miami.edu@RELAY.CS.NET>
Subject: Standardized guns and ammo
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 91 2:04:28 EDT


Recntly someone mentioned (I forgot to keep the message around, and
don't recall who it was) that rounds would not be interchangable
between tech levels.  I always assumed that there was some sort of
standard "Imperial 7mm" or "Imperial Marine 9mm long" like we have
today with such things as 7.62 NATO or .45 ACP.  Sure, you can
occasionally find non-standard stuff, but it seems to me that it'd be
much cheaper to produce rounds locally (maybe 1 world in the subsector
gets the contract and ships them to the bases).

As far as guns go, they are probably produced under contract from a
standard design so that troops do not need to be retrained when they
are stationed in different subsectors.

Of course, this all assumes that the Imperial Bureaucracy is smart
enough to go for the lowest co solution.    Or greedy enough to
realize the high bribe potential involved in awarding the Imperial Contracts.

Just a few incoherent thoughts.

Joe


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2818
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1991 17:08 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Ask Dr. Science... Inertial Death

(It's time once again to Ask Dr. Science,
So let's ask Dr. Science...)

That's ME!

(Jeannie from Hwig, Idaho writes:
Dear Dr. Science,
What would happen to the human body if there were no inertia?)

Thanks, Rodney!
Well, Jeannie, Let's ask one quick question:
What is air pressure?  Well, air pressure is caused by billions
and billions of little things called molequeles bouncing off a
wall like a handball court.  The inertia of these molequeles is
transferred to the wall in effect pushing against the wall with a
force.

Now if there was no inertia, then there will be no air pressure.

(Gee, Dr. Science!)

That's right Rodney!  Ok, now the human lungs work by expanding
the ribcage, creating a partial vacuum so that air will flow into
the lungs.  But, if there is no air pressure outside the lungs,
and no air pressure inside the lungs, no air will flow anywhere:
So, no air gets into the blood stream and you die.

(Gosh Dr. Science!)

But it gets worse Rodney!  Just as there is no air pressure,
there would be no pressure in liquids either.  So a person's
blood pressure would drop to zero also!  Now, the heart works the
same way as the lungs do.  So, with no blood pressure, the heart
will stop working causing death before you had a chance to die of
suffocation.

(Just a moment Dr. Science, what about Van der Waals forces?)

Well, it's true that Van der Waals force will give the blood some
tiny blood pressure, but I doubt it would be sufficient to keep
the blood flowing.  Heart efficiency would be drastically
reduced.  And if it were sufficient, you would just die from
suffocation.

(What about Chemical reacitions Dr. Science?)

Well, Rodney, BioChemistry was never my strong point, but I
suspect that the chemical reactions necessary to keep the
metabolism working would be badly effected.  Probably that would
kill you even before the heart would stop.

Anyway, Jeannie, to answer your question "what happens with zero
inertia?" in two words 'You Die'.

(Gosh Dr. Science!)

Well, Rodney, it's not all that crucial a question.  I think it's
more important to ask questions like "How many Primordials does
it take to change a lightbulb?"

(Gee, Dr. Science, how many does it take?)

{Yawn!!}  Who Cares?  {Snore!!!}

(Send your science questions to:
'Ask Dr. Science'
Kellogg@Ducvax.auburn.edu)
(And remember, He's not a real Doctor!)

I have a bachelor's degree!

(In Science!)

actually in physics...
Scott Kellogg
Never look a gift Horde in the mouth

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Thu Aug 29 00:48:36 1991
Received: from relay.tek.com by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA05278) Thu, 29 Aug 91 00:48:16 EDT
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA18434@relay.tek.com>; Wed, 28 Aug 91 21:04:54 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA06574; Wed, 28 Aug 91 21:03:13 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA00330; Wed, 28 Aug 91 21:00:22 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA08172; Wed, 28 Aug 91 21:00:17 PDT
Message-Id: <9108290400.AA08172@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #231: Msgs 2819-2832
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 21:00:16 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Aug 28 21:00:12 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #231: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2819  25-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Hordes of disintigrators << Hordes of Disinti
2820  26-Aug-91 Marc Alexandrovic Standard guns and ammo << Let's review the cu
2821  26-Aug-91 mwc@jake.cc.wayne Double Adventure Five << Aww, Scott, how are 
2822  26-Aug-91 kirsch@rhea.infor Engaging Jumpdrives on a planet's surface << 
2823  26-Aug-91 whservd!gsw@att.a Re: physics nullifiers and 2810: A Discussion
2824  27-Aug-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Standard guns and ammo << > In addition, 
2825  27-Aug-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Standardized guns and ammo << > From: jpb
2826  27-Aug-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2823) Re: physics nullifiers and 2810: A
2827  27-Aug-91 richard@oresoft.C Little-known ring-world fact << Just tinkerin
2828  27-Aug-91 Rob Miracle       Re: Engaging Jump Drive on a Planet << In Mes
2829  27-Aug-91 waylancm@mentor.c More firearms stuff << He's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC
2830  28-Aug-91 Marc Alexandrovic Some more on standard guns and ammo, now also
2831  28-Aug-91 Marc Alexandrovic Oh well, some more ships. << Type ZN Sagaciou
2832  28-Aug-91 Marc Alexandrovic Numbering << Hello, The numbering system I us

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2819
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1991 17:08 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Hordes of disintigrators

Hordes of Disintigrators

Paul Dale writes about Disintigrators:

"Currently disintegrators are basically worthless weapons, they
get less 'free' hits than meson guns, they are affected by
armour, they don't get internal damage hits.  When you also
consider that they are expensive, large, heavy & suck power like
nothing else they become totally useless"
"Strengthening a disintegrator is the way to go."

Disintigrators in Trav
How do they work?
According to Book 4 Mercenary, Nuclear dampers "may be used to
increase or decrease the stability of atomic nuclei.  Projecting
from two different stations, the intersection of the two
transmitted broadcasts produces a series of nodes and
anti-nodes.  In the area of the nodes, the strong nuclear force
is enhanced making the nucleus more stable.  In the area of the
anti-nodes, the strong nuclear force is depressed, making the
nucleus much less stable.  Anti-nodes are focussed on incoming
nuclear warheads, causing them to shed neutrons at low energy
levels, rendering the warhead inoperable."

"The damper is later developed into a disintigrator weapon,
beginning at tech level 16."

OK!  If that's how disintigrators work... Well, what happens to
those neutrons?  If you are going to disintigrate a large object,
you are going to give off one hell of a neutron storm!  Anyone
nearby will get blasted.

OOPS!  What about mass difference?  When an atom loses a neutron
it looses mass.  This mass is converted into energy.  (That's how
atomic fission works!)  So when your ship's hull starts loosing
neutrons it is going to gain energy.  Heat.  Presumeably, the
heat is sufficient to vaporize the material being vaporized. 
Thus the target disintigrates.

UH-OH!  That's not what happens!  According to Adventure 3: 
Twilight's peak (the only time we see disintigrators ever
described in action)  The target just "vanishes".  No heat, no
radiation storm.  The target just disappears.  "Control is
sufficiently precise to vanish one man from a crowd or destroy a
party's (sic) weapons while leaving everything else intact."

Rationalization:  (How it works when Scott is Ref and crazy
enough to try to deal with ancient artifacts)
The energy released is drained away from the target by the weapon
and goes toward powering the weapon.  After all, disintigrating
an object in the manner they describe requires one hell of a lot
of energy.
	In an ancient TL 24 pistol, there is sufficient power
stored to disintigrate a certain amount of mass.  As soon as the
disintigrator is fired it disintigrates that mass and drains off
the energy of the reaction to recharge itself.  If the energy was
NOT drained off (as might happen if the pistol malfunctioned) the
energy is released into the environment and the pistol is now
drained.  (note that the energy released into the environment is
going to be on the order of several kilotons.)
	Advice to anyone finding a 300,000 year old disintigrator:
Don't fire at close range...

	With a Shipboard disintigrator, you would have a choice:
either disintigrate a certain amount of mass for a split second
which would release the fission energy (several kilotons...) or
absorb that energy to maintain the disintigrator beam.

The first type of attack will give off huge amounts of radiation,
and energy.  The second attack would merely vaporize a certain
amount of mass in the target.  Either way, I do not see how armor
is a defence.  The anti-node of the disintigrator can be focused
inside the ship.  (Thus you could have an internal explosion in
the kiloton range)

Disintigrating mass might be more desirable if you want to
capture a ship.  (just replace the missing components and plates)

But which ever type of attack you like, the damn thing has to be
more deadly than the TL 8-9 particle accelerators which the rules
say it is on par with.  (Actually less so because it doesn't get
an automatic hit!)

Which brings me on to the use of nuclear dampers as defences.  It
occurs to me, that unless a target vessel knows what it is being
attacked with, it will not be able to do anything about it.  A
software program will have to be set up for the dampers to defend
against disintigrators.  Until the defender has seen a
disintigrator and experimented with it, they will not be able to
defend against it.

Scott Kellogg
Look Out!  Double Adventure Five is Coming!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2820
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 01:19:41 PDT
Subject: Standard guns and ammo

 
Let's review the current situation.
 
Pistol, Centerfire, Semi-Auto, Narrow Skirt Ammo
       .25 ACP (6.35mm)
       7.62mm Tokarev M30
       7.63mm Mauser
       7.65mm (.30) [Walther PP series, for example]
       .32 ACP
       .380 ACP (9mm Short) [Multitudes of modern pistols]
       9mm Sov [Makarov]
       9mm Parabelum [Multitudes of modern pistols]
       10mm [Smith and Wesson 1006 and 1076, Glock 22]
       .41 AE [Jericho 941 and 941F, Smith and Wesson models]
       .45 ACP (11.4mm) [Colt M1911A]
 
Pistol, Centerfire, Revolver, Wide Skirt Ammo
       .357 Magnum [Revolvers, IMI Desert Eagle]
       .38 Long
       .38 Special
       .41 Magnum [Revolvers, IMI Desert Eagle]
       .44 Special
       .44-40
       .44 Magnum [Revolvers, IMI Desert Eagle]
       .45 Long Colt
       .455 SAA [Webley Revolver]
 
Rifle, Centerfire, Military (Military cartridges have Ball, Tracer,
Incendiary, Balistite, Training and AP rounds)
       4.7mm Caseless [G11 Assault Carbine]
       5.45mm Sov M-74 [AK-74 and derivatives]
       5.56mm Nato (.223 Remington) [M-16, Galil, S-80]
       7.62mm Nato (.308) [M-14, M60, Galil Sniper Rifle, LAR, FAR]
       7.62mm Sov M-43 [AK-47 and derivatives]
       7.62mm Sov M-54R [PKS, SVD]
       .50 (12.7mm Nato) [Barret M-80]
 
Rifle, Centerfire, Civilian
       .222 Magnum              .30-40 Krag
       .250                     .300 Magnum
       .270                     .303
       .280                     .308 (7.62mm Nato)
       7mm Mauser               .350
       7mm Magnum               .375
       .30 Carbine              .458 Magnum
       .30-06                   .460 Magnum
 
Looks bad enough?
Lets examine the most popular cartridge in the world - 9mm Parabelum:
 
The standard ball bullet is 115 grain full metal case (FMC) projectile.
But there are alternatives - I carry 122 grain FMC rounds in my pistol,
a friend of mine has alternating 147 grain semi-jacketed hollow point
(SJHP) and 127 grain FMC. There are also 94 grain jacketed hollow point
(JHP), 105 grain silvertip HP (SHP), 115 grain military grade FMC made
with stronger propellant (the +P rating of some 9mm Para bullets is the
civillian version of this type) which can damage pistols firing it too
many times (these rounds are for submachineguns - UZI, MAC-11, etc).
 
There is now a shotgun round for the 9mm - 8 pellets in a container round,
Glazer safety slugs, 85 grain high speed FMC, 100 (or near) grain soft nose
bullets. There are types I do not know about, probably.
 
In addition, the weights of the weapons seem wildly off the mark. Lets
examine a modern pistol in detail. The pistol is Smith and Wesson 5904
semi auto (indeed, the pistol I carry):
 
                S&W 5904        TL7 9mm Auto
Length:           195mm           200mm
Weight:           780gm          1350gm
Rounds:         15/20              15
15x115grain FMC: ~200gm
15x122grain FMC: ~180gm (very light round cases)
15x147grain SJHP:~400gm
15x9mm Imperial                   200gm
15x9mm AP Imperial                150gm
 
Problems: Weight! The heaviest 9mm I am acquainted with (CZ-75) weighs around
1000gm. The lightest (Glock 19) weighs around 480gm. Where did the 1350 figure
come from?
 
Bertil?
 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Marc A. Volovic -                       Procrastinator and do-no-gooder|
| mav@LIZARDO.huji.ac.il     Snail: P.O.B. 23114, 91230 Jerusalem, Israel|
|             Dept. of Linguistics, Hebrew University, Mt. Scopus        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                       Fencers do it with rapid thrusts                 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2821
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 09:07:05 EDT
From: mwc@jake.cc.wayne.edu (Mick Collins)
Subject: Double Adventure Five

          Aww, Scott, how are we gonna come up with dumb puns for "Double Adventure Five"?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2822
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1991 17:12:14 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Engaging Jumpdrives on a planet's surface

Hi folks,

just a short question. Can somebody tell me, what will happen, if a ship
tries to enter Jumpspace on the surface of a planet. Err... I do not mean,
what will happen to the ship! I'm interested in what happen to the planet?

Any suggestions ?

Some of the players in my campaigne told me:

We will make a program in the ship's computer, which will engage jumpdrive,
if we are not back till... They think, the planet will be destroyed (or
at least an area of 400 km^2.

Any comments ?

That's it, Juergen

P.S.: If the suggestion above is true, it should be a much easier way,
      to destruct a planet, than using high KE weapons. Simply use a small
      Scout/Seeker and engage his jumpdrives on a planet's surface.

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2823
From: whservd!gsw@att.att.COM
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 14:06 EDT
Subject: Re: physics nullifiers and 2810:  A Discussion from GEnie

> The following discussion of Agility is from GEnie:
> 
> [ ... ]
> Item    8057512                 91/08/22        03:26
> From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich
> [ ... ]
>     A  way around this problem was given by considering  the  way 
> maneuver drives worked and how agility works and then considering 
> inertial compensators as a possible solution.
> [ ... ]
>     Taking  these things into account a theory occured  that  as-
> sumed  that  a more primitive form of  inertial  compensators  is 
> built  into  the ships as part of the maneuver  drives  and  hull 
> structural  members.  These inertial compensators are  simple  in 
> design  and are available at TL9 (in actuality the major  differ-
> ence between the TL9 and TL10 compensators is the computer  elec-
> tronics and the fine tuning necessary, requiring that environmen-
> tal  compensators  be built through the entire ship where  it  is 
> needed to protect the crew and cargo).
> [ ... ] [ uses this to explain why agility works the way it does
> and why the 6G limit, etc. ]

This sounds exactly like what I posted to the TML on 8/6.  I had
mentioned that it could be used to justify the way agility works,
but there is a more fundamental reason for a "physics nullifier"
here.  In fact, there are a number of "physics nullifiers" inherent
to Traveller.  You have a choice: accept them or change the nature
of the game.

I'm not talking just about the way agility is calculated, either.

I'm also not going to try to prove why interstellar travel breaks
our physics.

A huge problem is that of energy.  Traveller craft use fusion power
(this is given).  Ships are also capable of accellerating to some
very high velocities (sustaining 1G for a month is going to get you
pretty close to the speed of light).  Fusion just DOESN'T supply
that much energy.  Even if you were converting mass to energy with
100% efficiency, you still would have to use a sizable fraction of
the ship's mass as fuel.

Face it.  There's a problem.  If you really don't want "yet another
physics nullifier" then switch to fusion rockets and forget about
it.  Of course, that's not Traveller anymore.  (Don't get me wrong,
I think it would be a great game.  It's just not Traveller, that's
all.)  While you're at it, you might as well nix FTL drives at the
same time.

If you really want to stick with Traveller, then it is a question
of choosing your physics nullifiers.  While you're at it, why not
assemble a set of physics that works with the present rules?  As
long as it is consistent, I say this is OK.

I'm not going to argue about which set of physics nullifiers is
better -- I already have mine, thank you.  But don't argue over
every rule as a matter of present day physics.  I'm not saying
you can't question a rule, mind you -- I don't like the "excess
power = agility" rule either.

Whenever anyone posts an idea for justifying something, we tend to
get a bunch of posts to the effect of "It won't work.  How could
anyone have thought of such a stupid idea?  Ha."  C'mon.  Nothing
works if you close your mind (Hummingbird population extinguished
when they discover that they can't in fact fly.  News at 11. 8-).

Of course, you could also forget about justifying everything and
simply play the game 8-).

I guess what I'm trying to say is this:  Don't worry so much about
trying to make everything work by current physics.  If it really
bothers your sensibility to leave things unexplained, then by all
means explain them.  But you WILL have to make modifications to
present-day physics.  If you decide that your set of "physics
nullifiers" doesn't support the Traveller rules, then so be it.
But don't complain if I decide to make up one that does, or choose
not to worry about it.

Jerry Williams
gsw@gummo.att.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2824
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Standard guns and ammo
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 14:42:54 MET DST

> In addition, the weights of the weapons seem wildly off the mark. Lets
> examine a modern pistol in detail. The pistol is Smith and Wesson 5904
> semi auto (indeed, the pistol I carry):
>  
>                 S&W 5904        TL7 9mm Auto
> Length:           195mm           200mm
> Weight:           780gm          1350gm
> Rounds:         15/20              15
> 15x115grain FMC: ~200gm
> 15x122grain FMC: ~180gm (very light round cases)
> 15x147grain SJHP:~400gm
> 15x9mm Imperial                   200gm
> 15x9mm AP Imperial                150gm
>  
> Problems: Weight! The heaviest 9mm I am acquainted with (CZ-75) weighs around
> 1000gm. The lightest (Glock 19) weighs around 480gm. Where did the 1350 figure
> come from?
 
  In 3G, the weight of the gun is dependent on the power of the round, which
directly affects the mass of the reciever and barrel, but the barrel is
greatly affected by length. The resulting weight of the gun can be reduced by
putting a multiplier on the price. I suspect that I put a 0.75 mod on the
weight of that gun, which gave a 2.0 mod on the price.

  The reason why it gets so heavy, is that the round has to be much more
powerful to penetrate AF 2, which compares to 5mm armor plate. Computing actual
penetration in mm using 3G/Timelords and crossreferencing this on the
Striker/MegaT chart of armor mods to get the penetration. This ment that it was
harder to get the lower penetrations (1-6) but much easier to get the higher
penetrations (7+) with the weapons. I 'punched up' the load of some of the 
lighter weapons and rounds to reach their rated penetration in MegaT, but I 
didn't decrease it for those that begun to overachieve. 
  
  (A quick check with 3G gives that a TL7 9mmP has a DV (Damage Value, it gives
the penetration in MegaT) of 22, but the 9mm auto in the Imperial Encuclopedia
has a Pen of 2, and the round would need a DV of 27 to get a Pen of 2. There
wouldn't be any difference in penetration ability between a 9mmP or a
.357 Magnum if I did them with the real propellant loads, since all of them 
would get a penetration of 1. (DV's between 14 and 26 are Pen 1, because the
Striker/MegaT armor factors are too far apart at the low end of the scale:
AF 1 = 2.5mm, AF 2 = 5mm, AF 3 = 7.5mm))

  Hmmm... (sound of opinion changing) I think I'm beginning to agree with Rob
about lowering the AVs of the armors, so that I wouldn't have to boost the
rounds, but what do we do with all the futuristic armors that we don't know
how thick they are? Keep as is? Divide by 2? Remember that the AF of 18 for
a Battledress-15 means that it's armor equals 5cm of armor plate!

> | Marc A. Volovic -                       Procrastinator and do-no-gooder|

- -bertil-

P Regina							      239-1121
  The spokessophont for the chamax plague issued a statement yesterday where it
  protested the non-equal treatment the chamax plague is recieving on the
  joke front. Usually well disinformed sources expect other groups like
  the 'Kinunir', the 'Bright Face' and the 'Marooned' will follow up with
  statements of their own soon.
- -- 
"Det a"r en Svensk grej. Du skulle inte fo"rsta^..."


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2825
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Standardized guns and ammo
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 15:33:03 MET DST

> From: jpb <jpb%umbio.med.miami.edu@RELAY.CS.NET>
> Subject: (2817) Standardized guns and ammo
> 
> Recntly someone mentioned (I forgot to keep the message around, and
> don't recall who it was) that rounds would not be interchangable
> between tech levels.  I always assumed that there was some sort of
> standard "Imperial 7mm" or "Imperial Marine 9mm long" like we have
> today with such things as 7.62 NATO or .45 ACP.  Sure, you can
> occasionally find non-standard stuff, but it seems to me that it'd be
> much cheaper to produce rounds locally (maybe 1 world in the subsector
> gets the contract and ships them to the bases).

  The reason why it is very hard to do a round that is compatible with weapons
from all TLs (or at least 4 and up:) is that the energy of the powder increases
rather drastically. For the round to physically fit in the weapons, it will
have to be the same shape and size, and that means that the amount of powder
cannot be changed (except in very special circumstances, like the 5.56mm sub-
sonic for supressed weapons).
  And since the volume of powder is the same, but the energy increase, you
would get all kinds of interesting effects if you put a TL15 7.62 N in an
TL4 7.62 bolt action rifle. The hitech weapons would also have to be designed
for a greater than nessesary energy, with would make them heavier and more
expensive, and the lowtech weapons would become *much* heavier if their
designers had to prepare them for someone using hitech rounds in them.

  (The Swedish military standard 9mm is a Husquarna brand modified version of 
the old German Luger (ie a TL5 construction). There have been many cases where
old Husquarnas have cracked because the shooter had carelessly loaded it with
(TL 7) 9mm rounds intended for the M/45 SMG, and we are only talking about a
difference of 2 TL's here)
 
> As far as guns go, they are probably produced under contract from a
> standard design so that troops do not need to be retrained when they
> are stationed in different subsectors.
 
  Standardization:
    Advantages:
      No development costs.
      Standardization (but remember the TL effects!).
    Disadvantages:
      Royalties.
      Not adapted to local conditions.
      Is it really nessesary for a planetbound force?
  
  Local development and production:
    Advantages:
      Export potential (if you have lo-tech neighbours)
      Helps technical development on own planet.
      Adapted to local conditions.
    Disadvantages:
      Noncompatibility.
      Development costs.

  This question is highly dependant on how many people that really travel
extensively in the Imperium. I've always been under the impression that a
majority of the travels are done by a small minority consisting of those whose
work carry them between systems, nobles and adventurers. The majority of the
population of a certain planet couln't care less if their brands of ammunition
wasn't available 1pc away because they won't leave their planet.

  This is of course not true for organizations that span an area larger than
a system, like the IMC and the MegaCorps. I suspect that that is why 
Interstellarms have had such a hit with their standard line of weapons.

> Joe

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Det a"r en Svensk grej. Du skulle inte fo"rsta^..."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2826
Date:     Tue, 27 Aug 91 9:14:12 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2823) Re: physics nullifiers and 2810: A Discussion from GEnie

In his letter dated Mon, 26 Aug 91 14:06 EDT, Gerry Williams wrote:
>
> Of course, you could also forget about justifying everything and
> simply play the game 8-).
>

You could.  (And in the real world, mostly I do...)  What I have an aethetic
objection to is any game in which really strange things are done to the
'reality base' for no apparent gain in the game's play.  I think of it as
the same sort of trouble I would have with a fantasy game that made swords
better than halberds for wounding someone in plate armor, or a modern game
which is supposed to be 'realistic' in which characters can routinely absorb
a couple of .50 caliber machine gun bullets in the head <!> without becoming
unconscious.  It destroys my suspension of disbelief.

For Traveller, we basically have to accept the Jumpdrive and the grav plate
in order to stay with the game.  My aesthetic preference is that new 
technologies not be multiplied to cover what were probably intended as
approximations in the rules.  What Traveller really needs is a set of
Designer's Notes, to tell us what sort of things they skimped over and
why.  I also tend to see most of these new explanations for rules as
creating more problems than they solve.  If an inertial compensator is
really a misnomer for a grav plate system that is aligned opposite the
engine, then we haven't altered the assumptions of the game.  If it really
'neutralizes mass' then we have to spend a lot of time explaining why this
simple <?> TL9 invention <per the GEnie note> isn't used to ease transport
problems at higher tech levels, and why (for example) we don't just put a 
little tiny rocket on the ship, nullify the mass, and accelerate at 150Gs
for a couple of hours until the fuel runs out instead of carting around
those big fusion plants.

Despite the fact (or maybe because of it) that I have done extensive work
with the new vehicle design system, I feel that it was not especially
improved by addding all the extra detail compared to High Guard or Book 2.
However, because it is so detailed, my aesthetic sense is once again offended
when someone suggests to me that thousands of megawatts of power can be pumped
into some sort of mysterious agility generator, when the system requires me
to specify every piece of electrical equipment down to the cigarette lighter.
(-:  Where is this agility generator hiding, and how much does it weigh per
kl? (-:  If the inertial compensators are responsible for agility, then
the rules should tell me that a ship that has none has no agility, right?

Ah well, what can I say?  The current rules are just not very well thought out
in a lot of important ways.  (All cargo is worth the same amount per kl?  Makes
for a very dull merchant game, let me tell you...I'm tossing that out and
using Book 2 again for the moment...)  The strength of Traveller is in the
background.

Enough ranting for now.  Is anyone else going to be at the World Science 
Fiction Convention in Chicago?  Leave a message for me on the Voodoo message
board if you are.  (If you've been to a worldcon you know what I mean...if not
ask a native.)

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2827
From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Little-known ring-world fact
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 7:19:19 PDT

Just tinkering around with some numbers in preparation for the
upcoming PBEM season.  At R-alpha, a ringworld with a 1AU radius, if
you decided to walk the circumference, and you could steadily make
25km per day, it would take over 110,000 years to complete the
journey.

The size of this monster never fails to amaze me.
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
"Up to my ailerons in alligators."
Certainly this is worse in a Cessna than in a Mooney.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2828
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1991 12:25 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Engaging Jump Drive on a Planet

In Message: (2822) Engaging Jumpdrives on a planet's surface,
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de wrote
>just a short question. Can somebody tell me, what will happen, if a ship
>tries to enter Jumpspace on the surface of a planet. Err... I do not mean,
>what will happen to the ship! I'm interested in what happen to the planet?

>Any suggestions ?

I don't have the rules on me, but under the Old Traveller rules, you just had a
bad nasty DM if you were within 10 diameters.  Something about gravity wells
messing up the Jump physics.  Since they didn't say what would happen if you
were on the planets surface, some players logically argued that you could
engage Jump and live with the -DMs.  If you pilot is good enough, this has a
high probablility of just being a mis-jump.

Since Jump is not a propulsion system like the manuver drives, you could infer
that the jump drives just effect the mass of the ship and would put it into
jump space.  Where, and at what direction and jump velocity would be very
random due to the severe effects of gravity.  There would be probably no damage
to the planet since it is not a hyperspace object.

Now it is possible that the ship would be destroyed since the mishap chance is
very high.

>Some of the players in my campaigne told me:

>We will make a program in the ship's computer, which will engage jumpdrive,
>if we are not back till... They think, the planet will be destroyed (or
>at least an area of 400 km^2.

Your call there.  MegaTraveller may have a more definitive answer.


>P.S.: If the suggestion above is true, it should be a much easier way,
>      to destruct a planet, than using high KE weapons. Simply use a small
>      Scout/Seeker and engage his jumpdrives on a planet's surface.

A hand full of TL-15 Nukes are a lot cheaper than a 10Mcr scout.  I would
suspect that ramming the planet would do more damage than jumping from it.

Rob



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2829
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 11:55:11 -0500
From: waylancm@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Craig Waylan)
Subject: More firearms stuff

He's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCKK!!

Yes, Mr. Science is back in action(that's 'MR.', not 'DR.', dammit!), and
I thought I'd toss in my two bits on the recent firearms discussion. I don't
have any material in front of me, so this is only as reliable as my memory:
usually pretty good, but I encourage corrections.

Since the various and sundry types of firearms are already getting plenty
of air time, let's toss another bone in the pot: ammunition.

Something that a lot of ordinary people have found out(that the police and
military won't notice 'till the end of the century at least! :) is that
ammo technology has changed *a lot* in the past decade or two. Back before
the early '80s (I don't work well with precise dates, no flames please),
about all anybody used was plain 'ol FMJ - Full Metal Jacket - a lead
bullet wrapped in a thin copper (or other soft metal) jacket to give it
a little more oomph. If you didn't want to shell out for FMJ, you got 
even plainer 'ol Ball ammo - no jacket; cheap for training & practice,
but leaves a mess in your barrel. If you were really in a bad mood, you got 
some HP - Hollow Point - a lead bullet, with or without a jacket, which had 
a divot taken out of the middle so that on impact with a reasonably soft 
target(usually a person), it expanded outward into a large flat surface
(called 'mushrooming', get the picture?) and caused really nasty wounds. 
Unfortunately, nobody really cared what shape the divot was when they 
started making these things, so their mushrooming effect wasn't terribly 
reliable. Finally, if you really had some spare cash, or were in some
armies, you might even get some AP rounds - Armor Piercing - just use
something harder than lead(hence the high cost to make).

You'll note that I'm only discussing common types of rounds; there have
always been people who 'roll their own', casting their own custom bullets
and so forth. Also, 'gee-whiz' rounds like tracers, discarding sabot,
explosive-tipped, etc. either only existed in medium- to large-caliber
rifles, or(when put into handgun-sized calibers) were about as reliable as
your average public-transit system(in other words, not very!).

Recently, however, most companies have gotten a *lot* better with their
production techniques, as well as having much more creative R&D people.
Fr'instance: my personal choice for 'carry' ammo is the Winchester SilverTip
Hollow Point(STHP); weighing in at 129 grains in 9mm, it is, IMHO, the
best combination of penetration and stopping power in this caliber. A friend
of mine did some testing with this round in his .357 Magnum, and found that
it *very* reliably expanded in soft targets(just water jugs, guys :); but
against hard surfaces, it 'noses in', collapsing on the divot for better
penetration. Federal Hydra-Shok ammo uses a bizarre-shaped divot with a
post, or sprue(or something) in the middle for easily comparable results.

As Mark noted, various companies now make 'shotshell' rounds in handgun
calibers; .22 shotshell has been around for some time as a bird or rodent
round. It would make a wonderfully safe shipboard round in your 10mm
Autopistol(as long as your targets were unarmored :)

Another new creature in the zoo is the Glaser Safety Slug. This thing is
basically a bunch of tiny pellets(I don't remember what size), inside a
soft plastic(?) shell. The entire 'packet' is fired from the gun, which
then breaks on impact, causing fairly nasty wounds(again, only to unarmored
targets), but it won't go through walls or doors and so forth. They'd be
perfect for modern-day police departments, except for their outrageous
price: ~$18 for a packet of -6- shells is ridiculous!

Tracer and explosive rounds are also more availiable in pistol sizes these
days - more reliable too, although an expl. round will go off on the first
thing it hits, including panes of glass, etc., so watch what your PCs are
shooting at! These things are also a lot more available(frighteningly so) to
the general public. At any decent-sized gun show(the Indy 1500 in Indianapolis
is good), you can buy damn near *anything*. Did you know that, even though
you have to be 21 to get a pistol in Indiana, you can buy explosive handgun
ammo, over the counter, without even showing a driver's license? Don't you
feel safe with that kind of firepower at your disposal?(note:this is sarcasm:-)

I could probably go into a tirade about the NRA, but I've prattled on enough 
as it is. 

Suffice to say that even at TL7.5(and holding...), firearms are more than
deadly enough to get your PCs on the 'Imperium's Most Wanted' very quickly.
In game terms, even low-tech guns kill people *quickly*, not just from the
bullet itself, but from the *kinetic energy* it brings with it. I'll leave
it to you Physics types to do the calculations, but I'm pretty sure that
gauss weapons, with their 4mm needle bullets, are horribly overrated. They
may have a small enough cross-section to penetrate heavy armor, but they
won't do much damage once they get there. An old .45 slug, in comparison,
can't get through even modern body armor(cheap Cloth), but the impact alone
*will* knock you on your ass, and may very well kill you from blunt trauma
alone(ever been hit with a baseball bat at full speed?). Advance 
miniaturization from higeher TLs will only make things worse(yes, Virginia,
they already make explosive-tip shotgun slugs...try not to think about it); 
It'll be a long time indeed before energy weapons replase slugthrowers on the
battlefield, if only because they're cheaper.
*******************************************************************************
*	      Legion		 * "And all this science, I don't understand; *
* waylancm@mentor.cc.purdue.edu  *  It's just my job, five days a week..."    *
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2830
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 01:41:46 PDT
Subject: Some more on standard guns and ammo, now also referring to armour :-)

 
Lesseee... Hmmm....
 
  I prefer to manually decrease the AV (in MegaT) instead of dividing by
two.
 
  My AV table is:
 
    Jack                        0 (1)       Hostile Envir Vacc Suit-9   4
    Mesh                        1           Hostile Envir Vacc Suit-12  5
    Flak Jacket                 2           Hostile Envir Vacc Suit-13  6
    Cloth                       3           Hostile Envir Vacc Suit-14  7
    Ablat                       1 [4]       Combat Environment Suit     4
    Reflec                      0 [8]       Combat Armour-11            5
    Vacc Suit-8                 2           Combat Armour-12            7
    Vacc Suit-12                3           Combat Armour-14            9
    Vacc Suit-14                4           Battle Dress-13            10
    Body Pressure Suit          1           Battle Dress-14            14
    Hostile Envir Vacc Suit-8   3           Battle Dress-15            18
 
  No longer do people chance to take hits from Gauss rifles :-).
 
  Craig (who, among other sins, mangled my name) makes the mistake of
overrating the Glazer Safety round. It is, indeed, a very damaging
round, but it lacks in stopping power. For short ranges, I'd prefer the
9mm 147 grain SJHP over any combination of DS and Glazer.
 
  Thus - high calibre pistols have an edge in self-defence situations,
with ranges below 25m.
 
  The Gauss rifle, on the other hand is a military weapon. It has
absolutely no use (worse, it is absolutely deadly) in a self-defence
situation of any range in a civillian context. It is intended to lay
down high rate of fire at a reasonable range with low recoil and high
penetration - wounded soldiers are better than dead soldiers, especially
if the needles are hard to remove.
 
  Other weapons have specific niches - the body pistol, the integral
laser gun and others.
 
  As for weight versus price - 3G is VERY wrong here. Here are prices
and weights of four 9mm pistols I know. Prices are in I$ - Israeli
dollars (i.e. Israeli sheqels converted to US$ at US$1=IS2.35).
 
                Gun           Price  Weight
 
            CZ-75             I$510  990gm  (exc ammo, 1150gm with ammo)
            S&W 5904          I$851  780gm  (exc ammo, 990gm with ammo)
            Glock-17          I$595  550gm  (exc ammo, 800gm with ammo)
            IMI Jericho 941   I$425  950gm  (exc ammo, 1250gm with ammo)
 
  It cannot be said that the Glock is the least advanced - indeed, it is
MORE advanced than either the Jericho or the CZ and possible more
advanced than the Smith and Wesson. Of the guns, two (S&W and Glock) are
US manufacture, one is Israeli (Jericho) and the one (CZ) is Czech.
 
  Now what? :-)
 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Marc A. Volovic -                       Procrastinator and do-no-gooder|
| mav@LIZARDO.huji.ac.il     Snail: P.O.B. 23114, 91230 Jerusalem, Israel|
|             Dept. of Linguistics, Hebrew University, Mt. Scopus        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                       Fencers do it with rapid thrusts                 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2831
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 01:58:15 PDT
Subject: Oh well, some more ships.

 
                 Type ZN Sagacious Obliterator Intruder
                 Type YP Auerin Caetian Pleasure Yacht
 
 
  The Type JH was designed to be a fast, maneuverable intruder, armed
with missiles and a light laser battery. Somewhere in the development
process, a retaliation ship was requested by the Imperial Navy. Under
the designation ZN, 2 ships were built and tested.
 
  The type ZN carries 80 half-ton projectiles in the cargo hold. These
may be offloaded during flight using the two heavy robotic arms and
released. The official designation of the craft in imperial service is
Type QK Balastor Winhoek.
 
  At least two megacorporations are known to possess the plans for the
Type ZN. GSbAG ships YP-R15431 Auerian Caerian, YP-R15432 Auerian
Dioerika and YP-R15433 Auerian Easwyir have been identified as ZN
Intruders. Requests for information pertaining to these ships were
shuffled and reshuffled continuously.
 
  All Type ZN ships operate their reactors at 73% efficiency during
normal operations. Each hour off full reactor usage consumes 1.25 hours
of fuel. For especially long range operations or emergency jumps the
ship may switch off the maneuver drive to perform a second jump and seek
immediate refueling.
 
  Recently, GSbAG introduced the Type Y3. It is clearly a downgraded ZN
Intruder with lighter armament, smaller engines and computer and longer
range.
 
 
  CraftID: Type ZN Sagacious Obliterator Intruder, TL15, MCr529.631
    AuxID: Type YP Auerin Caetian Pleasure Yacht, TL15
    AuxID: Type QK Balastor Winhoek Courier, TL15
     Hull: 455/1136, Disp=500, Config=1AF, Armour=40G, Unloaded=5780.364 tons
	   Loaded=6228.555 tons
    Power: 28/56, Fusion=7434Mw, Dur=22/30 days
     Loco: 18/36, Jump=3, 63/126, Maneuver=5, Agility=4, EmergencyAgility=6
	   Max=3840 kph, Cruise=2880 kph, NOE=190 kph
     Comm: Radio=System(1000 au)*3, Laser=System(1000 au)*3,
	   Maser=System(1000 au)*3
  Sensors: EMM, HiPenDens=1km*3, NeutrinoSensor=10kw*3,
	   ActiveEMS=FarOrbit(500,000)*3, JammerEMS=FarOrbit(500,000)*3,
           PassiveEMS=InterStellar(2 parsecs)*3, HeavyRobotArm*2
           ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine, PassObjScan=Routine,
           PassObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Simple, PassEnPin=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=5
 
		BLaser=xx4	Missile=xo3
		  Batt	 2	   Batt   2
		  Bear	 2	   Bear   2
 
      Def: DefDM=+14/+16, OptimizedNuclerDampe=1
 
		Sandcaster=xx4
		      Batt   1
		      Bear   1
 
  Control: Comp=9/fib/ecp*3, LargoHoloDisp/ecp, HoloHUD/ecp
    Accom: Crew=15 (1 Bridge, 1 Engineering, 2 Command, 5 Gunnery, 5 Troops,
           1 Medic), Accom=Stateroom*5, SmallStateroom*5, basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp, airlock
    Other: Fuel=3517.2kl (1 jump-3 + 30 days running mode), Cargo=185.187kl,
           Scoops, Purifier=24hour, Magazine=40 battery rounds, ObjSiz=Avg,
           EmLevel=Faint
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           Type Y3 Gabilonne
 
 
  In 1114, GSbAG introduced a new pleasure yacht. The Type Y3, sporting
a conference room (3m x 14m x 8m), convertible into a squash court or a
light pistol shooting range, a sauna/jacuzzi room (3m x 8m x 7.5m) and
single staterooms for crew and passengers alike, became a successful
product, with 78 hulls purchased.
 
  In 011-1121, when BC-SMN049031 Zampok and its squadron jumped into the
Tavonni system (Vilis/Spinward Marches 1520) for routine refuelling, it
was a witness to a battle between a craft identifying itself as Y3-C1417
Muir Runner and a class T patrol cruiser T-N053003 Outrigger. The Muir
Runner continued to combat the Outrigger, destroying it and jumping
outsystem before the Zampok could intercept. Sensor scans showed that
the Runner exhibited much higher performance than is expected of the Y3
class, and suspicions are now rife that it has been, in fact, a ZN
Intruder, a class the Y3 closely resembles.
 
  Examination of purchasers shows that of the 78 hulls, at least 20 were
purchased by megacorporrations, notable among them GSbAG itself (seven
hulls) and Tukera (five hulls). The records do not indicate the exact
specifications of the purchased craft, an irregularity now under
criminal investigation.
 
 
  CraftID: Type Y3 Gabilonne Yacht, TL15, MCr191.6
     Hull: 455/1136, Disp=500, Config=1AF, Armour=40G, Unloaded=4537.623 tons
           Loaded=5282.806 tons
    Power: 15/30, Fusion=4068Mw, Dur=30/35 days
     Loco: 18/36, Jump=3, 36/72, Maneuver=3, Agility=3, EmergencyAgility=4
           Max=2850 kph, Cruise=2137 kph, NOE=190 kph
     Comm: Radio=System(1000 au), Laser=System(1000 au)
  Sensors: ActiveEMS=FarOrbit(500,000), PassiveEMS=InterStellar(2 parsecs)*3
           ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=5
 
		BLaser=xx4	Missile=xo3
                  Batt   1         Batt   3
                  Bear   1         Bear   3
 
      Def: DefDM=+10/+11
 
                Sandcaster=xx4
		      Batt   1
		      Bear   1
 
  Control: Comp=6*3, HoloHUD*3, HoloLinked*30
    Accom: Crew=10 (1 Bridge, 2 Engineering, 1 Command, 3 Gunnery, 2 Steward,
           1 Medic), Accom=Stateroom*15, High=3, Middle=2, Conference Room,
           Sauna/Jacuzzi, basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates,
           inertial comp, airlock
    Other: Fuel=2977.2kl (1 jump-3 + 30 days), Cargo=500kl, Scoops,
           Purifier=12hour, Magazine=50 battery rounds, ObjSiz=Avg,
           EmLevel=Moderate
 
 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Marc A. Volovic -                       Procrastinator and do-no-gooder|
| mav@LIZARDO.huji.ac.il     Snail: P.O.B. 23114, 91230 Jerusalem, Israel|
|             Dept. of Linguistics, Hebrew University, Mt. Scopus        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                       Fencers do it with rapid thrusts                 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2832
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 02:00:07 PDT
Subject: Numbering

Hello,
 
  The numbering system I use for my ships is based on the American
aircraft numbers.
 
  The hull number is organized thus:
 
        tt-nnnyyxxxxxx
 
   tt   Type (class) letters - BC, QK, YP, Y3, VH, etc
  nnn   Owner code. C - Civillian, R - Corporate, SMN - Spinward Marches
        Navy, IIN - Ilelish Imperial Navy, ZSN - Ziru Sirka Navy
   yy   Year of procurement
xxxxx   Hull number in the year of procurement
 
 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Marc A. Volovic -                       Procrastinator and do-no-gooder|
| mav@LIZARDO.huji.ac.il     Snail: P.O.B. 23114, 91230 Jerusalem, Israel|
|             Dept. of Linguistics, Hebrew University, Mt. Scopus        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                       Fencers do it with rapid thrusts                 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Sep  9 00:53:32 1991
Received: from julian.uwo.ca by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA00193) Mon, 9 Sep 91 00:53:28 EDT
Received: from relay.tek.com by julian.uwo.ca with SMTP;
	(id AA01884) Mon, 9 Sep 91 00:32:25 -0400
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA07482@relay.tek.com>; Sun, 8 Sep 91 21:04:42 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA15462; Sun, 8 Sep 91 21:03:33 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA25700; Sun, 8 Sep 91 21:00:24 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA27316; Sun, 8 Sep 91 21:00:17 PDT
Message-Id: <9109090400.AA27316@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        traveller@fantasci.uucp (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #232: Msgs 2833-2852
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 91 21:00:16 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Sep  8 21:00:10 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #232: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2833  28-Aug-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: More firearms stuff << > From: waylancm@m
2834  27-Aug-91 whservd!gsw@att.a Re: (2823) Re: physics nullifiers and 2810: A
2835  28-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au More K'Kree ships << 
2836  29-Aug-91 cmaddox@imsa.edu  Minor Correction on >Some more on standard gu
2837  29-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Let's try that again... K'kree starships << O
2838  29-Aug-91 George William He Vehicles FTP site minor change... << The ocf.
2839  30-Aug-91 James T Perkins   Happy Fourth Birthday, TML (very belated) << 
2840  31-Aug-91 Marc Alexandrovic Advanced weapons, etc << In TML nightly Volum
2841  03-Sep-91 cmaddox@imsa.edu  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 2840-2840 V25#4 << In T
2842  04-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic Beretta 92F, Traveller application of same :-
2843  04-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Ammo with lot's o letters << > From: Marc Ale
2844  04-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Back from the Worldcon << I'm back from the W
2845  04-Sep-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Food for thought << For those of you who wond
2846  04-Sep-91 bart@cs.uoregon.e Tech Levels << In TML biweekly V19#5 msg 2845
2847  05-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic Guns, laser guns, laser rangefinders, designa
2848  05-Sep-91 mikew@eecs.ee.pdx 92F'd to death << Getting way off the subject
2849  05-Sep-91 wew@naucse.cse.na 92f and guns in general and TML prob << One o
2850  06-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Local guns << > From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.
2851  06-Sep-91 CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.ED New mail address for me << For those who are 
2852  06-Sep-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Laser sights and Tech Levels << Marc, thanks 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2833
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: More firearms stuff
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 13:13:57 MET DST

> From: waylancm@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Craig Waylan)
> Subject: (2829) More firearms stuff
> 
> Something that a lot of ordinary people have found out(that the police and
> military won't notice 'till the end of the century at least! :) is that
> ammo technology has changed *a lot* in the past decade or two.

  The various agreements on inhuman weapons (the first of which outlawed 
exploding bullets of less than a certain calibre, btw) doubtlessly has something
to do with it. I assume that these are in effect in the Imperium too.

> Recently, however, most companies have gotten a *lot* better with their
> production techniques, as well as having much more creative R&D people.

  My knowledge on this comes from articles in the military press (like 
International Defence Review or Military Technology), and I must admit that
when I first heard of for example the Glaser round, it sounded like a good
idea. 
  However: The various incidents where certain of these 'new-style' rounds
have behaved in a different way that advertised indicates that the technology
isn't mature enough yet. Wound-ballistics are more a combination of art and
opinion than science, which is highlited in the fact that there are as many
opinions on which fluid or gel to use as there are experts.

  Weapons are dangerous to the user either when the user is stupid or when the 
weapon behave in an unpredictabe way. Since user stupidity can be prevented 
through training, unpredictability is the greatest remaining hazard.

  These are the main reasons I've put DS at TL 9 and higher, HP at TL 6+ and 
small-calibre (less than 10mm) HE at 10+

  (A tip to the Refs who's PC's like to use funny ammo: what do the criminal
and civil law say? :)

> I'll leave
> it to you Physics types to do the calculations, but I'm pretty sure that
> gauss weapons, with their 4mm needle bullets, are horribly overrated. They
> may have a small enough cross-section to penetrate heavy armor, but they
> won't do much damage once they get there.

  That depends in their contruction. Sintered tungsten penetrators like those
that were used in early (ie 50's to 70's) discarding sabot tank rounds have
a tendency to disintegrate into a cloud of tungsten shrapnel just after 
penetrating the armour. And if the rounds are done as old 'Mercenary' 
described them, with a 1mm tungsten core coated with a HP lead jacket, they
might work on lightly armored targets too (the word for this should be TSS -
Target Shredding Sabot, as gun data in the 2300 'Backdoor' adventure)

>* waylancm@mentor.cc.purdue.edu  *  It's just my job, five days a week..."    *

- -bertil-

P  Efate							      240-1121
   PC's use non-pc ammo! Public outranged! "Reopen Gash prison!" demonstrators
   demand.
- -- 
"Det a"r en Svensk grej. Du skulle inte fo"rsta^..."


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2834
From: whservd!gsw@att.att.COM
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 14:45 EDT
Subject: Re:  (2823) Re: physics nullifiers and 2810: A Discussion from GEnie

Robert S. Dean writes:

> For Traveller, we basically have to accept the Jumpdrive and the grav plate
> in order to stay with the game.  My aesthetic preference is that new 
> technologies not be multiplied to cover what were probably intended as
> approximations in the rules.

I never suggested that we should "throw technology at everything," but you
must admit that the physics problems presented by Traveller go FAR deeper
than jumpspace and anti-grav.

If you don't change something, then spaceships are getting a whole lot of
FREE energy right now.  Furthermore, this means that any Tom, Dick, or
Harry with a spaceship has the capability of single-handedly destroying a
planet.

You can either change the way maneuver drives work (quite drastically, I
might add), change the power source (this basically means consuming LARGE
quantities of fuel, even with 100% energy conversion), or accept that there
is some different set of physical laws which are being applied here (you
don't have to explain them if you don't want to).

> What Traveller really needs is a set of Designer's Notes, to tell us what
> sort of things they skimped over and why.

Agreed.

> I also tend to see most of these new explanations for rules as creating more
> problems than they solve.

Fine, don't explain them.  That's the way things work.  Period.

If you MUST have an explanation for things, then you will have to accept a
different physics or change Traveller.

If you have a concern about a particular explanation being inconsistent, then
say so and we can discuss it.

For example, the 'mass neutralizing' explanation seems at first to be
inconsistent, since you could just strap a small rocket onto a spaceship
that has its mass reduced (actually, the rocket's mass would probably be
reduced as well, but this just means that the fuel must be ignited AFTER
it returns to "normal" mass).  What if external forces tended to bring
the ship back to "normal" mass, however?  In fact, the 'neutralization'
could be inherently related to the propulsion mechanism itself.  The ship
might "warp" space in some direction (say, along the "mass" axis), using
this "warp" to provide propulsion.  Any force that acts on mass might also
tend to "warp" it back.

I also feel that involving inertial compensators integrally into the
"maneuver drive equation" is a mistake, but the main reason for this is
that it makes it impossible to have a ship with a maneuver drive and no
inertial compensators, even though there are examples of such a ship.

> However, because it is so detailed, my aesthetic sense is once again offended
> when someone suggests to me that thousands of megawatts of power can be pumped
> into some sort of mysterious agility generator, when the system requires me
> to specify every piece of electrical equipment down to the cigarette lighter.
> (-:  Where is this agility generator hiding, and how much does it weigh per
> kl? (-:  If the inertial compensators are responsible for agility, then
> the rules should tell me that a ship that has none has no agility, right?

If you accept that inertial compensators are integral to using the maneuver
drive, then this last case doesn't exist, since all ships will have SOME
inertial compensators (I've already stated that I'd rather not use inertial
compensators this way -- I also think it is easier to comprehend and more
fitting with the rules to say it is all handled by the maneuver drive).

> Ah well, what can I say?  The current rules are just not very well thought out
> in a lot of important ways.  (All cargo is worth the same amount per kl?  Makes
> for a very dull merchant game, let me tell you...I'm tossing that out and
> using Book 2 again for the moment...)  The strength of Traveller is in the
> background.

Agreed, although I might not agree with you on everything that classifies
as "important."  They do tend to waver some on the level of hand-waving,
however, specifying some things to minute detail while ignoring the physics
problems that other things cause.  I think MegaTraveller tried to raise the
overall "hand-waving" level.

Jerry Williams
gsw@gummo.att.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2835
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1991 21:06 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: More K'Kree ships


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2836
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1991 08:27:27 -0600
From: cmaddox@imsa.edu
Subject: Minor Correction on >Some more on standard guns and ammo

In TML nightly	Wed Aug 28 20:31:48 PDT 1991	Volume 25 : Issue 1 Marc
Alexandrovich Volovic states:
> 
>  It cannot be said that the Glock is the least advanced - indeed, it is
>MORE advanced than either the Jericho or the CZ and possible more
>advanced than the Smith and Wesson. Of the guns, two (S&W and Glock) are
>US manufacture, one is Israeli (Jericho) and the one (CZ) is Czech.
> 
I believe that you'll find that the Glock is manufactured in Austria (at
least originally).  I would not _conclude_ that the Glock is more advanced
weapon than the others, but it does use a more advanced material for the
majority of it's components (Slide, Reciever, Magazine, etc.).  

The Glock has a radiply growing number of fans, and has had a number of
highly favorable reviews recently.  It may be the wave of the future but
all of the weapons above (and many others - Such as the Browning Hi-Power,
Beretta M92F, Taurus PT-92 & PT-99, H&K P7 Series, etc.) have advantages
and disadvantages when compared to one another.  I would say that the Glock
is an advanced weapon and it compares favorably to the other weapons
mentioned.

Chuck

Chuck Maddox    	       	       	       	       	cmaddox@imsa.edu
Computer Technician     	       	       	       	(708)-801-6015    	
Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy
  	       	


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2837
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1991 14:51 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Let's try that again... K'kree starships

Ooops!  Transmission error!
More Stuff

K'kree Courier TL15 "Kahk'rik'kreng" Class

CraftID:  K'kree Courier TL15, MCr 1780.715
Hull:     (5400/13500) Disp=6000, Config=7SL, Armor=40G,
          Load=30147, Unload=32878
Power:    (57/114) Fusion=15320MW, Dur=30/90
Loco:     (108/216) Maneuver=1, (216/432) Jump=3, MaxAccel=2.56,
          NOE=190, Cruise=750, Max=1000, Agility=2
Comm:     Radio=System*2, Maser=System
Sensors:  A-EMS(FarOrb), P-EMS(Interstel)
          ActObjScn=Rout ActObjPin=Rout PasEnScn=Rout
Off:      HPoints=15
          Missile=x02    PLaser=xx2
          Batt      10             10
          Bear      10             10
Def:      DefDM+5   SCaster=xx3
                    Batt      20
                    Bear      20
Control:  Computer Mod3*3, LrgHoloDisp*1, HoloHUD*21, HoloLink*34
Accom:    Crew=44(Command=5, Bridge=8, Engineer=8+5robots,
          Gunner=7, Maintain=9, Stewards=5, Medic=1)
          Passenger=34, 'Staterooms'=77,
          BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, G-Plates, I-Comps
Other:    Fuel=21715kl(1 jump-3+30dy), Cargo=1211Kl,
          Scoops, Fuel Pure=57.2hr, ObjSize=Lrg, EmLevel=Mod
Remarks:  The standard K'kree courier as found in alien module 2.
     There are five engineering robots (Master +4 slaves as found
in 101 Robots) in the crew (counted above reducing the organic
engineering crew to 8.
     Note that there are no 'staterooms' as there is only
one communal room for the entire crew.  An allowance of 648Kl is
made for each K'kree aboard at a cost of .8Mcr (Twice the cost of
a normal stateroom and 12 times the size.   Fuel purification
takes 2 standard K'Kree days.



K'kree Frigate TL15 "Rr'xighik'ker" Class

CraftID:  K'kree Frigate TL15, MCr 1668.47
Hull:     (4500/11250) Disp=5000, Config=7SL, Armor=40G,
          Load=304665, Unload=49183
Power:    (119/238) Fusion=31999MW, Dur=20/60
Loco:     (360/720) Maneuver=3, (90/180) Jump=1, NOE=190,
          Cruise=750, Max=1000, MaxAccel=5.7, Agility=5
          CombatMaxAccel=3.66, CombatAgility=3
Comm:     Radio=System*2, Maser=System
Sensors:  A-EMS(FarOrb)*2, P-EMS(Interstel)*2, EMS-Jam(FarOrb)
          Densiometer=(1km*1, 250m*1) Neutrino=10kw*2
          ActObjScn=Rout ActObjPin=Rout
          PasObjScn=Rout PasObjPin=Rout
          PasEnScn=Simp  PasEnPin=Rout
Off:      HPoints=50
          Missile=x02    BLaser=xx2
          Batt      10             10
          Bear      10             10
Def:      DefDM+6   SCaster=xx3
                    Batt      20
                    Bear      20
Control:  Computer Mod3*3, LrgHoloDisp*2, HoloHUD*13, HoloLink*13
Accom:    Crew=44(Command=12, Bridge=7, Engineer=7+5robots,
          Gunner=38, Maintain=3, Stewards=2, Troops=20, Medic=1)
          'Staterooms'=44,
          BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, G-Plates, I-Comps
Other:    Fuel=14430kl(1 jump-1+20dy), Cargo135090Kl,
          Scoops, Fuel Pure=28.6hr, ObjSize=Lrg, EmLevel=Mod
Remarks:  The standard K'kree Frigate as found in alien module 2.
     There are five engineering robots (Master +4 slaves as found
in 101 Robots) in the crew (counted above reducing the organic
engineering crew to 7.
     Note that there are no 'staterooms' as there is only
one communal room for the entire crew.  The above is considered
double occupancey.  Only military personnel are carried (no
females or children)
     During combat, power for the engines is diverted to the beam
laser turrets at the cost of some performance.  Fuel purification
takes 1 standard K'Kree day.
     The ship has 1000 tons left for customization.  Above it is
counted as cargo.  Variants allow the carriage of 40 more troops,
(double occupancy) or vehicles.

Recently there was a bit in the trav news service about a fleet
of K'kree warships moving through the Spinward Marches on a
mission to recover a lost trade delegation before the Marches
were completely cut off from the Two Thousand Worlds.

Scott Kellogg

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
The TML fails the Aug 1991 trav trivia quiz!
The title of Double adventure five is:       (Drum roll)

"The Chamax Plague/Horde!"
Sorry there are no second chances!

What The Horde is happening to the TML?  That was an easy one!
Don Hordo will not read off the list of prizes!

The TML has let loose a horde of puns...

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2838
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 22:31:38 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Vehicles FTP site minor change...


	The ocf.berkeley.edu vehicl list FTP site now has the vehicle
descriptions in the pub/games/traveller folder rather than pub/traveller .
	It's also about a week behind installing some updates from Rob
Dean ( 8-) but that will be taken care of.

- -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2839
Subject: Happy Fourth Birthday, TML (very belated)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 91 15:10:23 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


I suppose I should finally write my yearly TML Administrivia summary.
One of our largest contributors, Rob Dean, has continually bugged me
about it, so I guess I should get the monkey off my back today.	 Now I
know how Richard feels when he puts off the TML turn composition.  :-)

June 16, 1991 marks the fourth anniversary of the Traveller Mailing
List.  Four years before, I posted a message to rec.games.frp asking if
people would be interested in a mailing list to discuss Traveller, and
here we are!

Statistics: As of 30 August 1991, there are 279 member addresses on the
active list: 6 are on temporary hiatus, 206 receive the nightly digest,
64 receive the biweekly digest, and 6 receive the archive bundles; there
are also 18 prospective new members awaiting address confirmation.

Typically for prospective new members I send them one hello.  If I don't
hear back from them in a long time, I try once more, then forget about
ever reaching them.  Cruel but necessary on a 280-member list.

Approximate subscriber breakdown by physical location:

    North America:
	USA: total 186
	    ?? 18, AK 1, AL 3, AR 1, AZ 4, CA 29, CN 1, CO 5, DL 1,
	    FL 6, GA 4, HI 1, IA 1, ID 3, IL 5, IN 4, LA 1, KY 2, MA 10,
	    MD 4, MI 8, MN 3, MO 4, MS 2, NC 2, ND 2, NH 2, NJ 10, NM 3,
	    NV 3, NY 5, OH 5, OK 1, OR 12, PA 4, TX 2, UT 2, VA 3, WA 8,
	    WI 1
	Canada: total 11
		Ontario 9, Prince Edward Island 1, Newfoundland 1
    South America: total 2
	Chile: 1	Costa Rica: 1
    Europe: total 34
	Norway: 2	Germany: 1	Denmark: 2
	Iceland: 1	Sweden: 8	Finland: 1
	UK: total 19
		Unknown 7, England 9, Ireland 2, Scotland 1
    Asia:
	Israel: 1
    Australia:
	Australia: 3
    Antarctica:
	1 (honorary member)
    Unknown: 22

    I'll bet this is not 100% accurate, but it is suggestive of the
    general member distribution.

List contributions by month (yes, the graph is sideways):

    Jun 89  37 | *********
    Jul	    49 | ************
    Aug	    48 | ************
    Sep	    64 | ****************
    Oct	    94 | ***********************
    Nov	    63 | ***************
    Dec	    35 | ********
    Jan 90 120 | ******************************
    Feb	   201 | **************************************************
M   Mar	    74 | ******************
o   Apr	   101 | *************************
n   May	    48 | ************
t   Jun	    58 | **************
h   Jul	    73 | ******************
    Aug	    68 | *****************
    Sep	    87 | *********************
    Oct	    66 | ****************
    Nov	   234 | *******************************************************+
    Dec	   128 | ********************************
    Jan 91  89 | **********************
    Feb	    63 | ***************
    Mar	    66 | ****************
    Apr	    61 | ***************
    May	    88 | **********************
    Jun	    91 | **********************
    Jul	   221 | *******************************************************
    Aug	  ~128 | ********************************
	       ++----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
		0   20	 40   60   80  100  120	 140  160  180	200  220
			Number of messages submitted

    Jan 90: Hot topics were the opening of Richard Johnson's TML PBEM
    and starship design rule revamping.

    Nov 90: Hot topics were Scott Kellogg designs (posted by Stephen
    Smith) and Metlay's TDR announcement.

    Jul 91: A whole bunch of hot topics - meson sites, GEnie gateway,
    starship designs and economics, autofire/guns, physics, and kinetic
    terrorism.

Archives:
			87-88	88-89	89-90	90-91	TOTAL
			------- ------- ------- ------- -------
	# of messages	150	270	956	1113	2832
	Msgs/week	2.9	5.2	18.4	21.4	12.9
	avg M size (KB) 3.9	4.6	3.2	3.8	3.8
	# of bundles	13	28	69	94	232
	Volume (MB)	0.6	1.3	3.1	4.2	10.6

		Year summaries are from July 1 to July 1

Top 20 posters by # of messages (1 Jul 90 to 1 Jul 91):

    Rob Dean 155	    James Perkins 41	    Paul Dale 16
    Richard Johnson 70	    George Herbert 40	    Brent Woods 15
    Bertil Jonell 61	    T L Hayes 30	    Alan Huscroft 14
    Stephen Smith 60	    Dan Corrin 22	    Mark Gellis 14
    Mark Cook 59	    James Baranski 18	    Paul Baughman 13
    metlay 58		    Marc Volovic 17	    Peter Berghold 12
    Adrian Hurt 41	    Jo Jaquinta 16

Top 20 posters by volume, KB (1 Jul 90 to 1 Jul 21):

    Rob Dean 716	    Dave Boddie 103	    Jo Jaquinta 57
    Richard Johnson 421	    Adrian Hurt 100	    Dan Corrin 53
    Mark Cook 244	    T L Hayes 90	    Paul Dale 43
    Bertil Jonell 231	    Burton Choinski 85	    James Baranski 40
    metlay 145		    Brent Woods 73	    Peter Berghold 38
    Stephen Smith 120	    Marc Volovic 70	    Joel Lovell 34
    James Perkins 112	    George Herbert 70

In the last two years the TML has exploded onto the internet, with
several FTP archive and special interest sites for Archives, Starship
Designs, and software.	TML archives on MS-DOS floppies have been
ordered by about 5 TMLers.  Experiments at discussion subgroups for
Trade and Commerce, Star System Database, and "Traveller Done Right"
took off wildy and then foundered due to reduced interest.  Another
experiment - Richard's TML PBEM - was and continues to be a big success.
Also, Jo Jaquinta's Sector/System/Wrold generation software continues to
be more and more detailed as time goes by.

The administration of the TML has pretty much remained unchanged,
undergoing evolutionary change to the shell/awk/sed scripts which I use
to run the TML.	 The TML moved from a VAX 11/785, dadla.la.tek.com, to a
Sun SparcStation 1, metolius.wr.tek.com.  Tektronix finally granted
indeirect internet access to its employees, so with the aid of Dan
Corrin I am ocassionally found doing extra organizational effort at the
sunbane ftp site.

Are there changes coming up in the adminstration of the TML? Perhaps.
If I can ever unbury myself from my many personal and work commitments,
I would like to completely rewrite the list/archive administration
software into a coherent, portable package.  Also, Tek management is
promising to move everyone in the Walker Road site back into Beaverton
sometime in the nebulous future, so there may be some TML down time when
this eventuality comes about.

If you can think of any way to make this list more useful, I'd like to
hear your suggestions (even if they are "be more prompt, James!").
Thanks everybody for being a part of this list! Remember you don't need
to be a contributor to be welcome here.

James

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2840
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 91 01:48:23 PDT
Subject: Advanced weapons, etc

 
In TML nightly Volume 25 Issue 2 cmaddox@imsa.edu states:
 
>I believe that you'll find that the Glock is manufactured in Austria (at
>least originally).  I would not _conclude_ that the Glock is more advanced
>weapon than the others, but it does use a more advanced material for the
>majority of it's components (Slide, Reciever, Magazine, etc.).
>
>The Glock has a radiply growing number of fans, and has had a number of
>highly favorable reviews recently.  It may be the wave of the future but
>all of the weapons above (and many others - Such as the Browning Hi-Power,
>Beretta M92F, Taurus PT-92 & PT-99, H&K P7 Series, etc.) have advantages
>and disadvantages when compared to one another.  I would say that the Glock
>is an advanced weapon and it compares favorably to the other weapons
>mentioned.
>
>Chuck
 
  Nowhere do I say that the Glock is the wave of the future. In fact
(but this is quite a personal opinion), I hope it will be gone as soon
as possible - I do not trust safty-less pistols.
 
  However, the Glock __IS__ more advanced than the CZ-75, both in
materials and in action. It is more advanced (in materials) than the
Jericho 941, possibly also in action.
 
  I did not compare the Glock to any other weapons for a simple reason -
I did not shoot the weapons in question. From my knowledge, the Beretta
92F is better off forgotten as son as possible (which, alas, it will
not).
 
  The market (and that what it is, after all - a market) drives pistol
fashions - ammo and action. The current trend in ammo is slow, heavy
rounds of calibre close to 10mm (i.e. 9mm to 10.4mm). It was once in
favour of light, fast rounds (namely - .38 Special FBI load) but got
over that. The current trend in pistols is high capacity, light, medium
sized pistols - Glock is a wonderful example of these.
 
  All such trends may be reversed, modified or changed at a 6-months
notice.
=======
In TML nightly Volume 25 Issue 1 d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se states:
 
>  The various agreements on inhuman weapons (the first of which outlawed
>exploding bullets of less than a certain calibre, btw) doubtlessly has
>something to do with it. I assume that these are in effect in the
>Imperium too.
 
  There are two answers to this. One - you have never encountered
players who like to say "I am loading APIDSPX now." Two - you have never
encountered people who like to say "Load phoshoru... er... soft
ordnance."
 
>  That depends in their contruction. Sintered tungsten penetrators like
>those that were used in early (ie 50's to 70's) discarding sabot tank
>rounds have a tendency to disintegrate into a cloud of tungsten shrapnel
>just after penetrating the armour. And if the rounds are done as old
>'Mercenary' described them, with a 1mm tungsten core coated with a HP
>lead jacket, they might work on lightly armored targets too (the word
>for this should be TSS - Target Shredding Sabot, as gun data in the 2300
>'Backdoor' adventure)
 
  I think that is a good idea. Maybe, softnose penetrators (oxymoron?)
too.
 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Marc A. Volovic -                       Procrastinator and do-no-gooder|
| mav@LIZARDO.huji.ac.il     Snail: P.O.B. 23114, 91230 Jerusalem, Israel|
|             Dept. of Linguistics, Hebrew University, Mt. Scopus        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                       Fencers do it with rapid thrusts                 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2841
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1991 10:12:29 -0600
From: cmaddox@imsa.edu
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 2840-2840 V25#4

In TML nightly	Sat Aug 31 20:30:17 PDT 1991	Volume 25 : Issue 4
Marc A. Volovic states that:

>In TML nightly Volume 25 Issue 2 cmaddox@imsa.edu states:
> 
>>I believe that you'll find that the Glock is manufactured in Austria (at
>>least originally).  I would not _conclude_ that the Glock is more advanced
>>weapon than the others, but it does use a more advanced material for the
>>majority of it's components (Slide, Reciever, Magazine, etc.).
>>
>>The Glock has a radiply growing number of fans, and has had a number of
>>highly favorable reviews recently.  It may be the wave of the future but
>>all of the weapons above (and many others - Such as the Browning Hi-Power,
>>Beretta M92F, Taurus PT-92 & PT-99, H&K P7 Series, etc.) have advantages
>>and disadvantages when compared to one another.  I would say that the Glock
>>is an advanced weapon and it compares favorably to the other weapons
>>mentioned.
>>
>>Chuck
> 
>  Nowhere do I say that the Glock is the wave of the future. In fact
>(but this is quite a personal opinion), I hope it will be gone as soon
>as possible - I do not trust safty-less pistols.

Quite true, you never stated that.  _I_ stated that "It may be the wave of
the future", then again it might not.                       ======

It would not suprise me if more manufacturers produce weapons with similar
material's.  I would hope that they do not emulate the safety-less action
of 
the Glock.  Like you, I do not trust safety-less weapons.  The H&K P7
series also is safety-less (technically) but you have to physically
activate the 
firing pin to fire the weapon.  
  
>  However, the Glock __IS__ more advanced than the CZ-75, both in
>materials and in action. It is more advanced (in materials) than the
>Jericho 941, possibly also in action.

While I will agree with you that the Glock is more advanced in materials 
than the weapons mentioned, I cannot agree that it is more advanced in 
it's action exactly for the reason that you mention, no safety.  

>  I did not compare the Glock to any other weapons for a simple reason -
>I did not shoot the weapons in question. From my knowledge, the Beretta
>92F is better off forgotten as son as possible (which, alas, it will
>not).

However, you did state "It cannot be said that the Glock is the least
advanced - indeed, it is MORE advanced than either the Jericho or the CZ
and possible more
advanced than the Smith and Wesson.".  This sounds like a comparison is
made between the Glock and the other weapons and the concusion is that the
Glock "is MORE advanced ...".  

I did state that the Glock was an advanced weapon and it compares favorably
with other weapons mentioned.  In the context that I was refering to, "a
number of reviews", it did well.  I can not definativly say how good of a
weapon the Glock is, since I have not had opportunity to fire one.  While
the materials it is made of are interesting, the safety-less operation is a
big disadvantage, IMHO.

I would be interested to hear what you have heard about the Beretta 92F.  I

would guess that what you have heard is not favorable?  But perhaps this is
beyond the scope of a Traveller discussion...

Chuck


Chuck Maddox    	       	       	       	       	cmaddox@imsa.edu
Computer Technician     	       	       	       	(708)-801-6015    	
Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy
  	       	


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2842
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 91 02:09:41 PDT
Subject: Beretta 92F, Traveller application of same :-)

 
In TML nightly Volume 25 Issue 5 cmaddox@imsa.edu writes:
 
>I would be interested to hear what you have heard about the Beretta 92F. I
>would guess that what you have heard is not favorable? But perhaps this is
>beyond the scope of a Traveller discussion...
 
I think I can fit this into a TML message :-).
 
Firstly, the 92F is parallel to Imperial a 10mm SNUB (well, more or less).
 
The primary problem with Traveller equipment (ALL equipment, except
vehicles and ships) is that there is only ONE version of everything.
 
The US army had a competition for its primary handgun. The 92F won over
the Sig Sauer by virtue of a cheaper maintenance and spare parts deal.
It was then found out that the slide cracks and flies off the pistol
after about 4000 rounds have been fired. The US army instructed the
users to have the slides replaced after 3000 rounds have been fired. The
a slide broke after 3200 rounds have been fired. The US army cut the
replacement ceiling to 2000 rounds. Finally, the ceiling stood on 1000
rounds to replacement. The aforementioned saving went out of the gub
barrel :-).
 
In addition, a "feature" of the 92F adds to the "maintenance"
misadventure - both sights are part of the slide. Break one - slide must
be replaced. Cheap, eh?
 
Now - in Traveller we only have "10mm Auto." What about a "Intellarms
S-56 10mm Auto with gyrostabilizer?" Or a "BendArCo 23dm double magazine
10mm?" Or "Causative XMH-242 8mm, gyrostab, integral bipod, laser
rangefinder and designator?"
 
All Traveller equipment is "Pop from box. Unlimited warranty. Breaks on
GM intervention ONLY." What about lemons?! Eh!?
 
Marc

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2843
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Ammo with lot's o letters
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 91 15:10:17 MET DST

> From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
> Subject: (2840) Advanced weapons, etc
>
> In TML nightly Volume 25 Issue 1 d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se states:
>  
> >  The various agreements on inhuman weapons (the first of which outlawed
> >exploding bullets of less than a certain calibre, btw) doubtlessly has
> >something to do with it. I assume that these are in effect in the
> >Imperium too.
>  
>   There are two answers to this. One - you have never encountered
> players who like to say "I am loading APIDSPX now." Two - you have never
> encountered people who like to say "Load phoshoru... er... soft
> ordnance."

  I know that players like lots of letters on the ammo, but that gives the
Referee an additional 'push' to use at them: Use of illegal ammunition.
The bad guys will of course always use the most effective ammo available,
so the PCs will either be at a disadvantage or run afoul of the law, which
will lead to later disadvantages.

  Then there is the question of the Lawlevel on the ammo. Very 'fun' ammo might
not be available on Lawlevels >0 (note that exploding rounds are illegal at
LL >0. This means that HEAT for the snub pistol and HE for the ACR is hard
to find.) 
  Zhodani Thought Police, Solomani Solsecs, Vargr pirates and K'Kree militant
vegans always have large supplies of such ammo, though:)
  
> | Marc A. Volovic -                       Procrastinator and do-no-gooder|

- -bertil-

"This was supposed to be a COVERT extraction!"
"Shuddup and keep firing!"
- -- 
"Det a"r en Svensk grej. Du skulle inte fo"rsta^..."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2844
Date:     Wed, 4 Sep 91 13:08:30 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Back from the Worldcon

I'm back from the World Science Fiction Convention, and I'm still catching
up on the last few days worth of TML traffic.  If you haven't heard a response
from me on some outstanding letter by the end of the week, send me a reminder.

Thanks!

Tired and brain-fried,

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2845
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 91 13:13:23 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Food for thought

For those of you who wonder about what technology is handy at various
TLs, here's a little tidbit I picked up from an educational-supply 
catalog this arvo at lunch. For $300, you can buy what I believe is
the world's smallest practical visible-beam laser so far, a unit the
size of a pen weighing about 100 grams that uses AAAA batteries to
produce a 4 milliwatt beam with an easily visible red dot that has
a spread of approximately 1 per 2500 (yielding a 75mm spot at 100
meters). And I have no idea how much of the cost is the 24k gold
casing they sell it in....

metlay

Come ON, people! Try to get a Horde of yourselves!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2846
Subject: Tech Levels
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 91 22:11:56 -0700
From: bart@cs.uoregon.edu

In TML biweekly V19#5 msg 2845 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> For those of you who wonder about what technology is handy at various
> TLs, here's a little tidbit I picked up from an educational-supply 
> catalog this arvo at lunch. For $300, you can buy what I believe is
> the world's smallest practical visible-beam laser so far
...

So here's one I've been wondering about for a while.  Traveller
has been around for 10 years or so now.  We all know that
"Knowledge doubles every N years," with N some
impressive-sounding small integer :-).  So, when do we bump the
TL of "modern-day" Earth?  There's sure a lot of technology
around now that wasn't even 5 years ago.  Maybe an 0.5 TL
increment?

The real questions I'm trying to ask, of course, are:  How are
tech-levels scaled?  Linearly?  Exponentially?  In what
variable?  Some performance measure must be being used for the
technology being rated.  What is this measure, e.g. in
transportation, weaponry, or medicine?

Probably some part of the rules, (with which I'm afraid I'm not
very conversant) make this clear, but it seems to me to be hard
to both justify the assignment in the rules of technology to TL
and simultaneously reason that technology will keep expanding
at the current pace on Earth without taking it through a TL in
the next 10 years or so, if not in the last.

My apologies if Traveller die-hards already all know the answer
to this one...

					Bart Massey
					bart@cs.uoregon.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2847
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 91 00:09:45 PDT
Subject: Guns, laser guns, laser rangefinders, designators, laser thingamajigs.

 
In TML nightly Volume 25 Issue 6 d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se writes:
 
>  Then there is the question of the Lawlevel on the ammo. Very 'fun'
>ammo might not be available on Lawlevels >0 (note that exploding rounds
>are illegal at LL >0. This means that HEAT for the snub pistol and HE
>for the ACR is hard to find.)
 
  I once saw a situation (luckily, NOT in a game I participated in)
where the players had "ready boxes" for every law level. "Break out the
number 5 box, I'll have 3 units of ammunition." was a remark heard from
time to time. These people solved elmost everything out of the blazing
plasma barrel.
 
In TML nightly Volume 25 Issue 6 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU writes:
 
>For those of you who wonder about what technology is handy at various
>TLs, here's a little tidbit I picked up from an educational-supply
>catalog this arvo at lunch. For $300, you can buy what I believe is
>the world's smallest practical visible-beam laser so far, a unit the
>size of a pen weighing about 100 grams that uses AAAA batteries to
>produce a 4 milliwatt beam with an easily visible red dot that has
>a spread of approximately 1 per 2500 (yielding a 75mm spot at 100
>meters). And I have no idea how much of the cost is the 24k gold
>casing they sell it in....
 
  Can it be "tied" to a pistol or rifle - a laser sight? Doubtful, but
possible. What is the duration of the AAAA batteries for that pen? It
certainly cannot be used as a designator. As for demonstrators - a REAL,
third generation, laser beam sight (made in Israel by El-Op) costs about
$250, is about 6.5 centimeters long and 1 centimeter in diameter. It is
mountable on a pistol with ease, beside, above or under the barrel, and
can withstand recoil...
 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Marc A. Volovic -                       Procrastinator and do-no-gooder|
| mav@LIZARDO.huji.ac.il     Snail: P.O.B. 23114, 91230 Jerusalem, Israel|
|             Dept. of Linguistics, Hebrew University, Mt. Scopus        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                       Fencers do it with rapid thrusts                 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2848
Date:  Thu, 5 Sep 91 02:51:15 -0700
From: mikew@eecs.ee.pdx.edu (Michael Wilson)
Subject: 92F'd to death


Getting way off the subject (traveller) but I believe that the slide
breakage problem the US Army experienced was a result of using submachinegun
ammo (black stripe on case around primer?) in the 92F pistol.  However,
it is interesting that traveller allows substution of ammunition between
submachineguns and automatic pistols (If I remember correctly).  Then
again, with that many worlds, tech levels and gun-makers, a character in
a super-accurate campaign would be nuts to trust ammo bought on a different
world than the weapon.  
- -mikew

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2849
From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1991 08:03:58 MST
Subject: 92f and guns in general and TML prob

One of the features that I like about Traveller is the simple selection
of weapons.  You as a GM can get very explicit in the selection of weapons
in your campaign (i.e. "Do you want to look at a Glisten A24b 10 MM Snub or
an Interstell Arms X91 10 MM Snub?).  If you want to, you can even get into
the used gun market and have all sorts of fun.  For example, I bought a
used Taurus 9mm and shot 3 boxes of ammo through it on my first tryout.
2-3 rounds from every clip jammed.  Needless to say, I was pissed.  I took
the gun back to the store and traded it in for a new Browning Hipower.  
Haven't had a jam since.  I would think that every world manufactures weapons
that is able to.  Basically what I say is that there are Imperial specs
for ammo and each world builds guns to those specs.  Another thing you
could introduce are local weapons only.  Your player finds a nice gun
that does a lot of damage but the ammo is only available from the world
or origin (a good calibre today to show this is the 7.65 Argentine).

Is something messing up on the distribution to the list?  The last few
copies of the TML I have received have been chopped off somewhere in
the middle.


- -- 
Let sleeping dragons lie........                    | The RoleMancer 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
William Wilson (wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu | wilson@nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ  Flagstaff, AZ 86011

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2850
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Local guns
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 91 11:23:15 MET DST

> From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
> Subject: (2849) 92f and guns in general and TML prob

> Another thing you
> could introduce are local weapons only.  Your player finds a nice gun
> that does a lot of damage but the ammo is only available from the world
> or origin (a good calibre today to show this is the 7.65 Argentine).

  I did something like this once with a Solomani specific gauss-carbine and
gauss-mg (suspiciouly similar to the pulserifles and the harness mounted mg's
in 'Alien':). The PCs managed to get their hands on one of each, and a small
supply of ammunition, *and* they were smart enough to start researching if
they could specially order more ammo from a certain sectorwide ordnance
manufacturer that wish to remain anonymous:)
  Everything went fine, it would actually cost *less* thant what they'd expect,
but after a while they begun to suspect that this company planned to include
these weapons in their normal product line. It all led to a quite nasty verbal
fight over royalties, which ended with the PCs giving the suits the finger and
stomping out, with their weapons, only to find that the company had tried to
frame them as Solomani spys to get it's hands on guns anyhow:)
 
> William Wilson (wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu | wilson@nauvax)
> Northern AZ Univ  Flagstaff, AZ 86011

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Det a"r en Svensk grej. Du skulle inte fo"rsta^..."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2851
From: CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Fri, 6 Sep 91 10:23 EDT
Subject: New mail address for me

For those who are interested, I have moved and am now reconnected with the
new internet address of:  cdf1@psuvm.psu.edu

For those not interested... oh well.
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------+
:       *-=Carl Fago=-*             :                                 :
:  cdf1@psuvm.psu.edu - Internet    : This space under construction.  :
:  WULFGAR - Delphi  C.FAGO - GEnie :                                 :
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------+

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2852
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 91 11:50:04 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Laser sights and Tech Levels

Marc, thanks for the info on the El-Op sight. I wasn't offering up the
penlight as a strap-on, just as a demonstration of how small people 
are getting usable lasers these days. 

On Bart's question re TLs, I believe the rules state that a planet gets 
listed at a new TL when any one area hits that TL-- such high tech is
generally a planet's most marketable resource, and it tends to drag
other advances along with it. Personally, I was sitting in the TV 
Lounge at my dorm in Oberlin in 1981, watching the Columbia touch down
after its maiden flight. As the wheels touched down and everyone assembled
began to cheer, I quietly remarked to anyone who was listening, "Hm. Well,
that's it-- we just hit Tech Level 8."

metlay
Horde to tears

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Thu Sep 12 00:13:39 1991
Received: from relay.tek.com by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA06370) Thu, 12 Sep 91 00:13:21 EDT
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA16054@relay.tek.com>; Wed, 11 Sep 91 21:00:43 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA01334; Wed, 11 Sep 91 21:03:31 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA04114; Wed, 11 Sep 91 21:00:23 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA03218; Wed, 11 Sep 91 21:00:17 PDT
Message-Id: <9109120400.AA03218@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #233: Msgs 2853-2855
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 21:00:16 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: RO


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Sep 11 21:00:12 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #233: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2853  06-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  MTJ#2 << I've had MTJ#2 since Origins, but ha
2854  08-Sep-91 CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.ED GEnie People Interested in TML << general int
2855  08-Sep-91 CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.ED GEnie to TML (Opening Para. Chopped) << Sorry

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2853
Date:     Fri, 6 Sep 91 17:01:12 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  MTJ#2

I've had MTJ#2 since Origins, but have only read sections of it carefully
until today.  Has anyone looked closely at the Forward Observer Battledress?
This thing is supposed to be able to operate in temperatures of up to 1300
centigrade...which is to say that you could swim in a pool of molten iron.
Somehow I don't think that even a TL13 man-portable refrigeration unit would
be up to that kind of load.  (Insulation might take it briefly, but not to
_operate_ in, as specified.)

I am also annoyed at the article on space combat.  Leaving out the business
about maneuvering according to the Ref's Manual (I'll circle in this square
at speed 40...), the article states that use of a firing battery must be
given up for each sensor task above one performed by a ship.  I don't recall
reading this rule?  Does anyone else?  Perhaps some sort of limit is
appropriate, but in this case, a ship with a Model 9 computer and one turret
would have to give up firing to make two sensor rolls, but the same ship 
could fire 999 out of 1000 turrets if it had them.  Doesn't make sense to
me at all.  Maybe a limit based on computer size (one roll per size per 
computer operational) or something like that.  Wouldn't be a problem in
a one on one encounter, but could be difficult if you were trying to engage
multiple targets.   There is also a note that pinpoint lockons for targetting
can be shared among ships.  Since the info would only do you some good if
you had an _exact_ position calculation on the friendly ship giving you the
data (using a sensor in the process?) I'd disallow this one.

Rob Dean

A Horde, A Horde, My Kingdom for a Horde!
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2854
From: CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Sun, 8 Sep 91 14:10 EDT
Subject: GEnie People Interested in TML

general interest that I would like addresses and/or phone numbers to be
exchanged as I don't have the time to do this except on a general basis.

Anyway, here are some notes, unedited...


Item    0841162                 91/07/14        06:50

From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago

cc:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

Sub: MT/TML

    The person to talk too about maybe having a gateway between the two
would be Scorpia to start off with.  I know GE has the capaability for
gateways, but whether they want to do it or not is another matter.  Offhand
I would expect not offhand, or at least the traffic would be one way
only (from TML to GEnie).

    Bryan J. Borich
    3890 50th street
    San Diego, CA 92105-3005

    SS&V (Starports, Starships & Vehicles) is an MT fanzine dedicated
to publishing articles and starship/vehicle designs.  Issues are currently
$1.25 each, with 8 currently available.  It includes one article and the rest
of the pages are devoted to designs.

    Alien Realms is an MT fanzine dedicated to publishing articles that
cover the Alien races in Megatraveller.

    Materials for the above magazines are always desired. The preferred
format is IBM PC 360k or 1.2m disk (because I generally lack the time
to retype material).  In exchange for an article, 4 designs, or one piece
of artwork the author will get a free copy of the magazine upon publication.
The author retains all copyright to the material and is of course free
to see about publishing it elsewhere (a fair amount of the material in both
these magazines are preliminary works where the author wants more feedback
before final publication in another magazine, usually the Traveller's
Digest or Challenge).
    Material in Amiga format is also acceptable as is submission via email
through either GEnie (B.Borich), Compuserve, VervanNet (Bryan Borich).

=END=

Item    9402319                 91/08/16        04:01

From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago

cc:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich
        M.MIKESH                        Michael R. Mikesh
        ED.EDWARDS                      Edward A. Edwards
        J.KUNDERT                       James R. Kundert

Sub: USENET

    Okay I recieved that USENET material a couple of weeks ago, given
a year or two i might be able to sort through that material, I wish
even more now that we (HIWG) had easier access to that Net.
    In your last letter to me you offered to forward Bundles to me
as they become available. I would like to take you up on that offer,
if possible I would like to expand that offer if possible. What
I have in mind is that you could provide an Email feed between those
of us on GEnie and those on USENET, maybe a weekly link so it won't
take to much of your time? How do you feel about this? There are other
people who have this access so maybe the job could be shared (like
trade weeks or months). For instance I know that Farstar (James Kundert)
is on here and has a feed to USENET.

    You also offered to act as intemediary in my requests for use of
material from their mail in my magazine, if that offer is still
available, I would like to ask the following people to use their
material (I would also like to have their permission to have the material
used in a new Official GDW MT newsletter that is being worked on):

"Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>

Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)

Scott Kellogg      (703)-739-0831 or (908)-841-4707
37 Robin Rd
Rumson, NJ 07760
c/o  tnc!m0068@uunet.uu.net

    I also need there addresses in the cases of those people I don't
have one for. They will get a copy of the 'zine once I publish 4 of their
designs, this might be awhile though as I tend to lack articles more than
designs, especially if I can use their designs.

=END=

Item    4410066                 91/09/06        00:02

From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago

cc:     C.HESS4                         C. Hess
        J.ADAN1                         Jay Adan
        B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

Sub: 2300 TML access

    Sorry to ask you another favor, but I promised Hess to do what I could
to promote 2300, and I'm aware of a couple of people on the TML who are
interested in 2300.
    Also, could you pass this message on to TML members who are interested
in 2300AD (and in rec.games.frp?):

    Clare Hess, Editor of 2300 Resource, an official GDW newsletter on
2300AD is looking for subscribers to this magazine (which I would rate
as very good quality). He is also interested in finding people who are
willing to do what they can to promote 2300AD.
    Subscriptions to this magazine are $8 per year (4 issues). Mail
Subscriptions to: Resource Publications, P.O. Box 31146, Santa
Barbara, CA 93130.


2300 people I know from TML:
"Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
ran el-Yaniv <yaniv%shum.huji.ac.il@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
Yngve Larsson <yngve@tigger.softlab.se>
CHOINSKI@env.prime.COM
Joel Lovell <jlovell@smdvx1.intel.COM>

Clare Hess would probably be interested in the 2300 material they've
developed, as of right now however I haven't sent him the material these
people have posted to the TML because of possible copyright problems
(I wouldn't want to get anybody unintentionally in trouble, though I would
expect it would only happen by accident [and I have seen this happen]).

CLARE, anything you want to add to that (like foriegn sub costs, as I know
one of the parties is located in Isreal, at least I think so).

=END=

Item    7036472                 91/09/06        21:13

From:   M.MIKESH                        Michael R. Mikesh

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago
        B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

cc:     ED.EDWARDS                      Edward A. Edwards

Sub: TML / Imperial Lines

Carl -
     Bryan has a good idea.  We are starting an MT newsletter for GDW
called IMPERIAL LINES.  We can arrange to have sent out the free
introductory issues to those interested. But we need postal addresses
from people.  It'd be great if you or someone else could announce it
on TML, collect the addresses, and pass them on to Bryan for now.
(That okay with you, Bryan?)
     Here's the skinny on the newsletter, as I wrote it for TIFFANY
STAR.  (TS28 went to paste-up yesterday.)

 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                            GDW Newsletter
     HIWG is going to do the MegaTraveller newsletter for GDW, to be
called IMPERIAL LINES.  As it looks right now, it'll be quarterly, 8
pages, and circulated from GDW.  Geo Gelinas will be chief editor.
     As Geo describes in his 8/13/91 letter to James Maliszewski and
myself, "Other things I would like to put into the newsletter are the
occasional deck plan, perhaps one a year; equipment, but maybe not
placing a single piece of equipment on a single sheet; essays on
various topics; scenarios and news relating to the issue's subsector,
somewhat akin to the old amber zone; maybe a cartoon; artwork; and so
forth.  In fact, in many ways it will be like the JOURNAL CLASSIC."
     Although the newsletter probably will not be the official organ
for announcing products, it will include product news.  And, articles
featured in the newsletter will have a nature different from those
in Challenge. We shouldn't try to compete with Challenge for articles,
nor can we pay anything for them.
     With this in mind, I think the foremost objective should be to
circulate "orphaned" official or near-official information.  Examples
include material prepared for products but did not get in, the
complete table of sector names, official alien homeworlds, and Second
Survey material.
     The second most important thing is to circulate useful
compilations, i.e. the Traveller Database Project (TDB).  Even if this
material doesn't make for good stand-alone magazine articles, it has
much use.  Some of the things John Meyers has circulated are excellent
examples.
     The third is to circulate amateur articles and essays.  The
newsletter might include reprints of the best articles that have
appeared in fanzines, plus new material, such as vehicles from Rob
Prior, and starport or alien essays from Bryan Borich.
     So far, here's how Geo is thinking to arrange the posts, although
this is still fluid:
        Chief Editor:         Mark "Geo" Gelinas
        Contributions Editor: Mike Mikesh
        Associate Editors:    John C. Meyers, Dennis Myers, ...
 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

     <HIWG has members that are interested in what we call
GIGATRAVELLER>  Yes, that's almost always what I've heard it called.
Of course, I'm sure no one is thinking that will end up its title.
     Curiously, Marc has heard that Geo and I are of the opinion that
Traveller would not be seriously harmed if they DID translate the
system to Tw2000.  This came out in a recent phone call Marc made to
John Meyers.  Despite Marc's comments at Origins about GDW having made
the decision to keep the MT rules system, he might be reconsidering.
     <Excuse me if I'm asking too much, but I'm really excited about
trying to get TML and HIWG together as we have more in common than
might be apparent.>  In Chuck Gannon's calls to me, he's expressed the
same thing.  He's astonished at the similarities, yet there's almost
no sharing of subscribers/members.  He very much wants to see the two
get together.
                                                                  MIKE

=END=

Item    4132300                 91/09/07        07:23

From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago

cc:     M.MIKESH                        Michael R. Mikesh
        J.ADAN1                         Jay Adan
        T.MCINNES2                      Terrence R. Mcinnes
        C.BUSH3                         Clayton R. Bush
        S.OLSON4                        Scott D. Olson
        ED.EDWARDS                      Edward A. Edwards

Sub: TML archives

    Thanks for committing to posting the material to the TML, I really
appreciate it.
    I've recieved bundles #1-212 and I've forwarded them to those
who can recieve them, excepting Scott Olson [by the way I didn't
make it to the Post Office Friday, so much for plans], and I forgot
that Terry had a MAC, so my IBM disks ahven't done him much good yet.
    Is there anybody on the TML who can make the material available
on MAC and Apple II type disks?
    I'm obviously interested in all the material, Mike would be too
I think, as would Ed Edwards. Clay, Olson and McInnes would be interested
in Starship/Vehicle related material. Clay would be interested in the
economics material, such as it is. Gelinas would be interested in the
TDR (Traveller Done Right), as would most of the rest I think.
    In regards to Economics/number of starships available, you might want
to have the members of the TML look at the starports that can build ships
also, Tim Koors did a spreadsheet taking that into account to see how much
tonnage there might be.

    <TML addresses> Yeah, I'd be willing to collect them for the
newsletter.

    <GIGATRAVELLER> Yes, definitely, just a working title, just as TDR
is to the TML. Offhand I think the switch to the Twilight 2000 2nd edition
system would be somewhat okay, at least for character generation and
combat, although I'm not sure about the vehicle combat as such.

    <TML similarities>  Yes, there are a lot of similarities and a lot of
duplication of effort, though we both knew about each other (and more
of them knew about us, then vice versa), there seems to be a big
misunderstanding by them of what HIWG is. What little connection there has
been between HIWG->GEnie and the TML has gone mostly there way. And there's
been a lot of duplication of effort and waste of time on there part since
they haven't talked to some of us like they could have.
    Of course at the moment I'm not sure there is a good definition of
what HIWG is, anymore than there is a good definition of what the TML
is.

=END=


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2855
From: CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Sun, 8 Sep 91 19:48 EDT
Subject: GEnie to TML (Opening Para. Chopped)

Sorry, but the opening paragraph regarding GEnie to TML commmunications
was chopped off.  Part of learning VM/CMS and XEDIT after being used to
DOS, UNIX, and Vi...

As many of you already are aware, there is a large contingent of people
discussing Traveller and generally carrying on as we do here.

Earlier this summer, I took the liberty of passing on some TML stuff to
Bryan Borich on GEnie as he expressed interest.  What follows are some of the
messages that have been passed back and forth.  I have committed to give it my
best shot to pass on either TML or GEnie messages as appropriate.  My
committment extends only as far as I have the time and energy and I told
Bryan that if it becomes a matter of passing personal messages not of
general interest that I would like addresses and/or phone numbers to be
exchanged as I don't have the time to do this except on a general basis.

Anyway, here are some notes, unedited...


Item    0841162                 91/07/14        06:50

From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago

cc:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

Sub: MT/TML

    The person to talk too about maybe having a gateway between the two
would be Scorpia to start off with.  I know GE has the capaability for
gateways, but whether they want to do it or not is another matter.  Offhand
I would expect not offhand, or at least the traffic would be one way
only (from TML to GEnie).

    Bryan J. Borich
    3890 50th street
    San Diego, CA 92105-3005

    SS&V (Starports, Starships & Vehicles) is an MT fanzine dedicated
to publishing articles and starship/vehicle designs.  Issues are currently
$1.25 each, with 8 currently available.  It includes one article and the rest
of the pages are devoted to designs.

    Alien Realms is an MT fanzine dedicated to publishing articles that
cover the Alien races in Megatraveller.

    Materials for the above magazines are always desired. The preferred
format is IBM PC 360k or 1.2m disk (because I generally lack the time
to retype material).  In exchange for an article, 4 designs, or one piece
of artwork the author will get a free copy of the magazine upon publication.
The author retains all copyright to the material and is of course free
to see about publishing it elsewhere (a fair amount of the material in both
these magazines are preliminary works where the author wants more feedback
before final publication in another magazine, usually the Traveller's
Digest or Challenge).
    Material in Amiga format is also acceptable as is submission via email
through either GEnie (B.Borich), Compuserve, VervanNet (Bryan Borich).

=END=

Item    9402319                 91/08/16        04:01

From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago

cc:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich
        M.MIKESH                        Michael R. Mikesh
        ED.EDWARDS                      Edward A. Edwards
        J.KUNDERT                       James R. Kundert

Sub: USENET

    Okay I recieved that USENET material a couple of weeks ago, given
a year or two i might be able to sort through that material, I wish
even more now that we (HIWG) had easier access to that Net.
    In your last letter to me you offered to forward Bundles to me
as they become available. I would like to take you up on that offer,
if possible I would like to expand that offer if possible. What
I have in mind is that you could provide an Email feed between those
of us on GEnie and those on USENET, maybe a weekly link so it won't
take to much of your time? How do you feel about this? There are other
people who have this access so maybe the job could be shared (like
trade weeks or months). For instance I know that Farstar (James Kundert)
is on here and has a feed to USENET.

    You also offered to act as intemediary in my requests for use of
material from their mail in my magazine, if that offer is still
available, I would like to ask the following people to use their
material (I would also like to have their permission to have the material
used in a new Official GDW MT newsletter that is being worked on):

"Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>

Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)

Scott Kellogg      (703)-739-0831 or (908)-841-4707
37 Robin Rd
Rumson, NJ 07760
c/o  tnc!m0068@uunet.uu.net

    I also need there addresses in the cases of those people I don't
have one for. They will get a copy of the 'zine once I publish 4 of their
designs, this might be awhile though as I tend to lack articles more than
designs, especially if I can use their designs.

=END=

Item    4410066                 91/09/06        00:02

From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago

cc:     C.HESS4                         C. Hess
        J.ADAN1                         Jay Adan
        B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

Sub: 2300 TML access

    Sorry to ask you another favor, but I promised Hess to do what I could
to promote 2300, and I'm aware of a couple of people on the TML who are
interested in 2300.
    Also, could you pass this message on to TML members who are interested
in 2300AD (and in rec.games.frp?):

    Clare Hess, Editor of 2300 Resource, an official GDW newsletter on
2300AD is looking for subscribers to this magazine (which I would rate
as very good quality). He is also interested in finding people who are
willing to do what they can to promote 2300AD.
    Subscriptions to this magazine are $8 per year (4 issues). Mail
Subscriptions to: Resource Publications, P.O. Box 31146, Santa
Barbara, CA 93130.


2300 people I know from TML:
"Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
ran el-Yaniv <yaniv%shum.huji.ac.il@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
Yngve Larsson <yngve@tigger.softlab.se>
CHOINSKI@env.prime.COM
Joel Lovell <jlovell@smdvx1.intel.COM>

Clare Hess would probably be interested in the 2300 material they've
developed, as of right now however I haven't sent him the material these
people have posted to the TML because of possible copyright problems
(I wouldn't want to get anybody unintentionally in trouble, though I would
expect it would only happen by accident [and I have seen this happen]).

CLARE, anything you want to add to that (like foriegn sub costs, as I know
one of the parties is located in Isreal, at least I think so).

=END=

Item    7036472                 91/09/06        21:13

From:   M.MIKESH                        Michael R. Mikesh

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago
        B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

cc:     ED.EDWARDS                      Edward A. Edwards

Sub: TML / Imperial Lines

Carl -
     Bryan has a good idea.  We are starting an MT newsletter for GDW
called IMPERIAL LINES.  We can arrange to have sent out the free
introductory issues to those interested. But we need postal addresses
from people.  It'd be great if you or someone else could announce it
on TML, collect the addresses, and pass them on to Bryan for now.
(That okay with you, Bryan?)
     Here's the skinny on the newsletter, as I wrote it for TIFFANY
STAR.  (TS28 went to paste-up yesterday.)

 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                            GDW Newsletter
     HIWG is going to do the MegaTraveller newsletter for GDW, to be
called IMPERIAL LINES.  As it looks right now, it'll be quarterly, 8
pages, and circulated from GDW.  Geo Gelinas will be chief editor.
     As Geo describes in his 8/13/91 letter to James Maliszewski and
myself, "Other things I would like to put into the newsletter are the
occasional deck plan, perhaps one a year; equipment, but maybe not
placing a single piece of equipment on a single sheet; essays on
various topics; scenarios and news relating to the issue's subsector,
somewhat akin to the old amber zone; maybe a cartoon; artwork; and so
forth.  In fact, in many ways it will be like the JOURNAL CLASSIC."
     Although the newsletter probably will not be the official organ
for announcing products, it will include product news.  And, articles
featured in the newsletter will have a nature different from those
in Challenge. We shouldn't try to compete with Challenge for articles,
nor can we pay anything for them.
     With this in mind, I think the foremost objective should be to
circulate "orphaned" official or near-official information.  Examples
include material prepared for products but did not get in, the
complete table of sector names, official alien homeworlds, and Second
Survey material.
     The second most important thing is to circulate useful
compilations, i.e. the Traveller Database Project (TDB).  Even if this
material doesn't make for good stand-alone magazine articles, it has
much use.  Some of the things John Meyers has circulated are excellent
examples.
     The third is to circulate amateur articles and essays.  The
newsletter might include reprints of the best articles that have
appeared in fanzines, plus new material, such as vehicles from Rob
Prior, and starport or alien essays from Bryan Borich.
     So far, here's how Geo is thinking to arrange the posts, although
this is still fluid:
        Chief Editor:         Mark "Geo" Gelinas
        Contributions Editor: Mike Mikesh
        Associate Editors:    John C. Meyers, Dennis Myers, ...
 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

     <HIWG has members that are interested in what we call
GIGATRAVELLER>  Yes, that's almost always what I've heard it called.
Of course, I'm sure no one is thinking that will end up its title.
     Curiously, Marc has heard that Geo and I are of the opinion that
Traveller would not be seriously harmed if they DID translate the
system to Tw2000.  This came out in a recent phone call Marc made to
John Meyers.  Despite Marc's comments at Origins about GDW having made
the decision to keep the MT rules system, he might be reconsidering.
     <Excuse me if I'm asking too much, but I'm really excited about
trying to get TML and HIWG together as we have more in common than
might be apparent.>  In Chuck Gannon's calls to me, he's expressed the
same thing.  He's astonished at the similarities, yet there's almost
no sharing of subscribers/members.  He very much wants to see the two
get together.
                                                                  MIKE

=END=

Item    4132300                 91/09/07        07:23

From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

To:     C.FAGO                          Carl D. Fago

cc:     M.MIKESH                        Michael R. Mikesh
        J.ADAN1                         Jay Adan
        T.MCINNES2                      Terrence R. Mcinnes
        C.BUSH3                         Clayton R. Bush
        S.OLSON4                        Scott D. Olson
        ED.EDWARDS                      Edward A. Edwards

Sub: TML archives

    Thanks for committing to posting the material to the TML, I really
appreciate it.
    I've recieved bundles #1-212 and I've forwarded them to those
who can recieve them, excepting Scott Olson [by the way I didn't
make it to the Post Office Friday, so much for plans], and I forgot
that Terry had a MAC, so my IBM disks ahven't done him much good yet.
    Is there anybody on the TML who can make the material available
on MAC and Apple II type disks?
    I'm obviously interested in all the material, Mike would be too
I think, as would Ed Edwards. Clay, Olson and McInnes would be interested
in Starship/Vehicle related material. Clay would be interested in the
economics material, such as it is. Gelinas would be interested in the
TDR (Traveller Done Right), as would most of the rest I think.
    In regards to Economics/number of starships available, you might want
to have the members of the TML look at the starports that can build ships
also, Tim Koors did a spreadsheet taking that into account to see how much
tonnage there might be.

    <TML addresses> Yeah, I'd be willing to collect them for the
newsletter.

    <GIGATRAVELLER> Yes, definitely, just a working title, just as TDR
is to the TML. Offhand I think the switch to the Twilight 2000 2nd edition
system would be somewhat okay, at least for character generation and
combat, although I'm not sure about the vehicle combat as such.

    <TML similarities>  Yes, there are a lot of similarities and a lot of
duplication of effort, though we both knew about each other (and more
of them knew about us, then vice versa), there seems to be a big
misunderstanding by them of what HIWG is. What little connection there has
been between HIWG->GEnie and the TML has gone mostly there way. And there's
been a lot of duplication of effort and waste of time on there part since
they haven't talked to some of us like they could have.
    Of course at the moment I'm not sure there is a good definition of
what HIWG is, anymore than there is a good definition of what the TML
is.

=END=


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Sep 16 13:13:12 1991
Received: from julian.uwo.ca by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA03859) Mon, 16 Sep 91 13:13:09 EDT
Received: from relay.tek.com by julian.uwo.ca with SMTP;
	(id AA10336) Mon, 16 Sep 91 00:34:03 -0400
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA23517@relay.tek.com>; Sun, 15 Sep 91 21:00:51 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA26776; Sun, 15 Sep 91 21:03:35 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA25101; Sun, 15 Sep 91 21:00:22 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA12295; Sun, 15 Sep 91 21:00:17 PDT
Message-Id: <9109160400.AA12295@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        traveller@fantasci.uucp (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #234: Msgs 2856-2860
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 91 21:00:15 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Sep 15 21:00:11 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #234: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2856  09-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  The Horde is Coming, Part 1 << You have all p
2857  08-Sep-91 bonnevil@acc.stol Re: Starship Combat << In regard to the rule 
2858  09-Sep-91 Joe.Heck.875-4451 RE: PBEM Goughzar << [Edited to match private
2859  10-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic Re: Genie to TML, 2300 and people << In TML n
2860  11-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Machinetools 1 (revised:) << Ok, here we go a

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2856
Date:     Mon, 9 Sep 91 16:04:42 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  The Horde is Coming, Part 1

You have all put up with the horde of jokes in recent weeks, and the results
of your forbearance will be appearing in three or four chunks over the next 
few days.  Contrary to notes below, all designs are by Scott, with suggestions
and general scut-work from me, and history from metlay.

Good Gaming!

Rob Dean

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE HORDE

The Horde may be the most effective marketing ploy in the history of
human civilization. It is the only known instance of a single coordinated
advertising/marketing/manufacturing campaign turning a large but
unremarkable company into an Imperially recognized megacorporation,
and its fruits are seen and accepted every day by literally trillions
of people across the entirety of known space. To date, the profits it
has netted its originators have been calculated as being enough to 
purchase the fifty most populous and prosperous worlds in the Imperium 
and everything on them... and the cashflow shows no signs of slowing down.

In the early centuries of the Third Imperium, starship travel was both
risky and rare, as the regrowing nation strove, often unsuccessfully,
to assure travellers of easy access to the materials and parts they needed
to keep their ships, which represented their lifelines, in working order.
It was not uncommon (as it is now, in the Rebellion, again becoming 
common) for a ship to be grounded many parsecs from home because a single
part that could not be replaced by local manufacturers was lost or broken.
Even worse, this situation extended to the much more common nonstarships
that were relied upon in every system even when Jump travel was a lost
art, and forgotten until they broke down and caused trouble by their absence.
Imperial military contractors had some degree of standardization in their
gear, but this suffered from sector to sector as Solomani designers in 
firms like GSbAG locked horns with Vilani designers at Sharurshid and refused
to compromise on various design points. This made waging war relatively 
straightforward when the ships fought and were built in the same area, as
in the Frontier Wars, but when ships had to be moved across wider ranges
of the Imperium itself, such as in the chaos of the Civil War in the early
600s, the problems of resupply became hellish. There was no guarantee
that a naval fleet could resupply from a depot of the same Navy! The
situation was ripe for change, technological advances into the realm of TL 12
coming at the same time as turmoil and unrest in the political arena,
and it was only a matter of time before someone saw an opportunity to
make money, and leaped on it in a big way. That someone was a tiny company 
on a planet with unremarkable characteristics but a fair amount of 
historical import, only recently reintegrated into the Third Imperium.
The company was called General SpaceCraft, Inc., and the planet was Terra.

The Horde was conceived of by three young executives working in various 
branches at the General home office on Terra. Their names have been 
forgotten now, except where reverent design engineers and marketing 
strategists have engraved them on their hearts while still in college.
They were led by Peter Broom, an advertising trainee who was already 
showing a killer instinct suitable for a Crested Jabberwock. His two
compatriots were Stewart Provost, an Assistant Technician in R&D, and
Shannon Mills, a newly-employed manager in the Shipwrights' Division, where
actual ship construction took place. The two hardware men were constantly
harangued by their fellow employees for their shared and rather uncommon
penchant for outlandish schemes for making the firm rich. Broom, however,
knew talent when he saw it, and risked the jeers of his superiors in
Marketing when he began sitting with the pair at lunch in the Executives'
Cafeteria and listening, first with feigned interest and later with genuine 
enthusiasm, as The Twins (as they were usually called) sketched out
weird profitmaking ideas on placemats and napkins. Broom's business aplomb
flattened most of those ideas in the birthing stages, but the others
didn't mind: there was a good, WORKABLE idea in there somewhere, and 
sooner or later they'd find it. And when they did, the Imperium's newest
member world was going to give it one hell of a shock.

Their first major breakthrough was the discovery of certain properties of
Tevlac, a plastic recently developed on Warinir and enjoying a fair degree
of popularity among industrial chemists for its sturdiness and easy
machinability. Tevlac, Provost discovered, developed a strong affinity
for temporary molecular rebonding upon fracture lines when stimulated with
a trickle of electric current: it would be broken into pieces, and stick
together along the breaks as long as it was connected to a battery. The 
adhesion wasn't much, but it was enough to solve one of the starship
industry's biggest headaches-- how to get the little hole that always
remains when an Iris Valve closes up to seal airtight every time. Soon, 
Tevlac valve-seats were in use all over known space, and the patent money
and licensing fees began flowing in. People took notice of Provost's 
inventiveness, of the risks Mills took in trying the new technology on the 
line, and Broom's aggressive marketing of the idea, and lights began
turning green at higher levels of management.

Mills's invention of gravitationally-induced hull fitting, where hulls
were friction-fit for spotwelding by the application of tight antigrav
fields, sped up spaceship hulling by 3%-- not much until one considers the
long haul, where it added up to substantial increases in productivity.
This was adopted over pin-fitting by all Imperial Navy contractors by
order of the Navy in 597. But the real boon, and the discovery that 
got the corporate gears turning, was the development of the RAMKS by Provost
and Mills in 601. Up until that time, the welding and fitting of superdense
hulls was considered an expensive luxury, due to the difficulties in 
getting the impenetrable materials to bond together easily. The RAMKS (an
acronym for Robo-animechaniakatasthyser) was a man-portable device
incorporating fusion and grav technology to induce superfluid states in
confined areas of superdense hullmetal, allowing smooth joins as easily
as two copper pipes could be soldered together with a brazing torch. 
The explosion outward of this technology removed the last vestiges of
resistance from the Board of Directors-- what Broom, Provost and Mills
wanted, by God they got it.

The stage was set for the Horde.

In early 604, the three men, now division directors of a rapidly-expanding
company, politely asked to meet with the President and Board in a closed
session. They had, Broom said mildly, an idea. With the dollar signs
barely hidden by their contact lenses, the Board set up the meeting. It
lasted over fourteen hours, and the written records of the session were
kept sealed for nearly two hundred years. But when the meeting let out,
the President looked twenty years younger, the Board were sweating 
profusely, and the Three Amigos were grinning like the cats that had just 
eaten the canary. The next day, things started moving.

R&D shifted over to component design optimization. Overnight, virtually
all of the R&D division's time went into designing structured-modular
avionics and engine control circuitry-- the essential idea being an
interlocking design for electrical and mechanical subsystems with a
stepped degree of throughput based on the Tech Level of each component,
the lowest one in a given subsystem being its least common denominator.
These components were strictly standardized in easily-made forms, and
optimized at Tech Levels ranging from 9 to 13 (the maximum available 
at the time). What this meant was that if a module blew, a TL 11 design
could use a replacement fabricated on a TL 9 world with a positive,
documented understanding of exactly which functions would be limited 
and how. This degree of centralization was unheard of, except perhaps
among the Vilani megacorporations, whose designs were standardized
by default but uniform by Tech Level with little or no crossreferencing.

At the same time, the Shipwrights began building prototype hulls using
techniques easily available over the same spread of Tech Levels. The
main manufacturing areas were divided into a dozen sample field ship
construction areas, with spotwelders hobnobbing with fusioncutters
and RAMKSers and cable-trays next to fiberbundles and infralinkups.
A microcosm of ship construction techniques under one roof, carefully
hidden from the press by a normally-talkative company, began to get
tongues wagging. 

Marketing used the firm's past history and future prospects with surgical
precision. Investors eager to cash in on the fledgling firm's latest
breakthrough went anywhere from buying shares on speculation to writing
blank development checks. Some of these, like Hortalez et Cie and Antares
Holdings, would later be rewarded with shares in the new company; others,
like Beechcraft Interstellar, would resist going the way of their old
rivals like Cessna and Piper (now a division of GSbAG, which watched the
proceedings with some interest and much discomfort) by merging with General
to profit more directly in what was to come. These were great risks, but as
it turned out, this early risk-taking paid back in incredible measure. The
chaos of the Civil War, which caused a great deal of damage to the Navy and 
the Core sector but had little effect elsewhere, merely served as cover 
for what happened next.

In 609, ships began leaving Terra for parts unknown. Properties were bought
at starports on many worlds, and carefully sealed off from public view,
first hundreds and then thousands of them. The planning had been meticulous--
each property was tiny, and raised little or no speculation on its own.
No one saw the larger pattern until it was far too late to do anything 
about it. By 615, there were worlds from Jewell to Spica with these small
properties on them, and supplies were flowing from local factories to 
stockpiles nearby. The only places deliberately avoided were worlds where
the Sharurshid shippers had a stranglehold on the industry-- the Vilani 
weren't even given a whiff of what was about to happen.

In that same year, advertisements began to be posted on thousands of different
worlds, each bearing the same words: "The Horde is Coming." Public speculation
ran riot, and the overtaxed investors, certain that their long wait was about
to bear fruit, held their breath.

On Holiday of 616, the Horde was unveiled simultaneously on every planet
in the campaign. Local investors took one look at the degree of local 
capital involved in the project, and began shoveling money into the 
company's gaping maw. Shipping firms read the specs, watched the promo
films, conducted tests of their own, and began buying. The project built
up momentum and never stopped. Its first major victory came in 620, when
Tukera Lines began replacing old craft with the Horde. Soon after that,
the first Tech Level Boost Program, a system for upward compatibility
as the Imperial TL climbed, was announced, and the Imperial Navy and 
Scout Service began using the Horde for non-critical tasks in thousands
of backwater bases and fringe areas. The final victory came over twenty
years later, when Sharurshid purchased the license fees to begin building
the Horde itself, and the Vilani megacorporation completed what is now
taken for granted as the base standardization of non-milspec ship parts
in the Imperium and surrounds. Broom, Provost and Mills were rather older
by then, but they were present on Vland when the agreement was signed,
and they were present before the throne of Arbellatra a year later when
the Limited Imperial Charter was granted to the new megacorporation of 
General Products, LIC.

And what, precisely, WAS the Horde? Let me give as an explanation the words
of Peter Broom, taken from that first board meeting:

"Gentlemen, people are sick and tired of being strangled by the inability
to rely on standardizations when they travel. No one will agree to a set
of standards-- they have to be RAMMED down the shipping industry's
collective THROAT. What we are proposing here is not a glamorous action,
or even one that will be remembered, oh, five hundred years from now. What
we are about to do will lay so basic a foundation for the construction
and support of starships and orbital-support spacecraft along accepted 
and standardized lines, that our designs and parts will not only be a
household word in a decade or two, but in a century the Vilani will have
caved in as well, and in TWO centuries people will have largely forgotten
that there ever WASN'T a standard! When people of the year 1100 pick up
a copy of "Traveller: Science-Fiction Gaming in the Distant Past," and
read about the spaceship designs that were just becoming standard when
the Imperium was cracking under its own inertia and those upstarts from
Earth who'd been in the Imperium for less than twenty years were turning
things on their collective EAR.... I want them to read about OUR designs."

And so it has been. Although General Products has taken a lot of flak
recently for its starship designs, its spacecraft, now manufactured
under subcontract by every shipping firm in the Imperium to some degree 
or another, are so standard as to have been forgotten... and the industry
has upgraded them as the Tech Level advances, so that they are now on
the market from TL9 to TL16, with TL17 designs on the way. 

Or, in game-design terms--

We the designers (Scott Kellogg and Rob Dean) and the storyteller/historian
(metlay his-SEFF) are proud to ceremoniously dump upon the TML community
a collection of standardized and Imperially accepted "norm" designs for
non-Jumping support craft of every type, guaranteed to work better at
all TLs than the designs written up in the MT rules and to serve in each
and every campaign that requires a TL-appropriate "vanilla ship" for
any purpose at all....

THE HORDE!
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Launch TL9-17

     The launch is a minimal small craft intended for utility space to space 
operations, as well as light cargo and personnel landing.  Most of the launch-
es shown below have a loaded wieght based on the maximum load that can be 
given a 1-G acceleration.  If manueverability is not an issue (as with space 
to space transfer work), the cargo holds can be fully loaded with a reduction 
in acceleration.

  CraftID: Launch Type QL, TL9, MCr5.23
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40D, Unloaded=201t, Loaded=260t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=27.5MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 1/2, Maneuver=1 (StdGrav), MaxAccel=1G, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,
           Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: AllWeatherRadar=Planetary, RadarDirectionFinder, Light
           Amplification, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Imp
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*1, CompLink*46
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*10, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls, airlock
    Other: Fuel=9.89kl, Cargo=190/172kl (Max wt=58.93t), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Launch Type QL, TL10, MCr7.59
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=205t, Loaded=260t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=46.6MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 1/2, Maneuver=1 (StdGrav), MaxAccel=1G, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,
           Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*1, DynLink*75
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*10, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=12.6kl, Cargo=183/165kl (Max wt=53.8t), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Launch Type QL, TL11, MCr6.62
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=210t, Loaded=280t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=47.8MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 1/2, Maneuver=1 (Thrusters), MaxAccel=1G, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,
           Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*1, DynLink*75
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*10, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, 
           basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=12.91kl, Cargo=183/167kl (Max wt=63.4t), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Launch Type QL, TL12, MCr5.49
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=190t, Loaded=280t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=47.5MW, Dur=15
     Loco: 1/2  Maneuver=1 (Thrusters), MaxAccel=1G, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,
           Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*1, DynLink*63
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*10, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, 
           basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=12.82kl, Cargo=183/165kl (Max wt=89.4t), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Launch Type QL, TL13, MCr5.04
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=171.4t, Loaded=280t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=60MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 1/2, Maneuver=1 (Thrusters), MaxAccel=1G, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,
           Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*10, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, 
           basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=18kl, Cargo=181/263kl (Max wt=107t), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Launch Type QL, TL14, MCr5.14
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=145t, Loaded=280t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=60MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 1/2, Maneuver=1 (Thrusters), MaxAccel=1G, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,
           Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*10, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, 
           basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=18kl, Cargo=181/163kl (Max wt=134t), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Launch Type QL, TL15, MCr3.97
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=107t, Loaded=280t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=54MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 1/2, Maneuver=1 (Thrusters), MaxAccel=1G, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,
           Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*10, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=19.44kl, Cargo=183/165.kl (Max wt=172t), ObjSize=Avg, 
           EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Launch Type QL, TL16, MCr3.89
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=100t, Loaded=280t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=63MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 1/2, Maneuver=1 (Thrusters), MaxAccel=1G, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,
           Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*10, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, 
           basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=21.6kl, Cargo=181/163kl (Max wt=178t), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Launch Type QL, TL17, MCr 4.29
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40H, Unloaded=100t, 
           Loaded=252/234t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=63MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 1/2, Maneuver=1 (Thrusters), MaxAccel=1.12G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*10, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, 
           basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=21.6kl, Cargo=181/163kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2857
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 91 23:20:17 -0500
From: bonnevil@acc.stolaf.edu
Subject: Re:  Starship Combat


In regard to the rule requiring the forfeiture of a shot for each sensor
task beyond the first:

Yes, that rule is actually in the Ref's Manual.  I agree that it doesn't
seems like it should work very well -- but ofcourse, we already know about
the extensive editing on the MT rulebooks, right? :)

I understand the concept of forfeiting a shot in return for taking the time
to do some more sensor scans, but I don't think that that rule works
well for that.  I toyed with the concept of using a "scout escort" covered
with sensors to feed scan information to a EMS-active silent fleet.  The
idea was to keep from exposing the important ships to automatic sensor
locks while allowing them to use the data from the escort.  The problem
is, you need to install a LARGE number of weapons on a ship in order to
get a large number of sensor tasks.  Unarmed ships only get two sensor
tasks.  Even if you have a giant crew of sensor operators.  To me, this
makes little sense.  And if you need to defend the escort from incoming fire,
you need to put extra weapons on it for defense.

What if you put laser rifles on the ship?  They don't even take up turret
space.  Do you get to do the subtraction from those "batteries" instead of
the main weaponry?  (Probably not, it would be a silly work-around, but
they _are_ weapons...and you'd still get to shoot them if you can't use
them for sensor tasks!)

The idea to involve the computer makes sense, and maybe skills of the ship
commander and the sensor operator should play a role; faster identification
and orders to fire control about targets would help more of the batteries
have a chance to fire for effect.  Any more ideas out there?

- --Steve

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2858
Date: 9 September 91, 17:50:18 CDT
From: Joe.Heck.875-4451.CSPECJH@UMCVMB
Subject: RE: PBEM Goughzar

[Edited to match private mail sent after this message - James]

Goughzar has undergone an address change - if you please my address is now
cspecjh@umcvmb.bitnet (or for you internet folk - cspecjh@umcvmb.missouri.edu).

The player is also changed, although the character Goughzar will not - my name
is Joe Heck and I've actually been running Goughzar through my roommate's
account. Thanks,

Zar (Joe)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2859
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 00:31:30 PDT
Subject: Re: Genie to TML, 2300 and people

 
In TML nightly V25 I9 CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU writes:
 
>2300 people I know from TML:
>"Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
>ran el-Yaniv <yaniv%shum.huji.ac.il@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
>Yngve Larsson <yngve@tigger.softlab.se>
>CHOINSKI@env.prime.COM
>Joel Lovell <jlovell@smdvx1.intel.COM>
 
  ran el-Yaniv (yaniv@shum.huji.ac.il) is an emergency account once used
by ME. Ran (the person) is interested in electronic music and politics,
not some newfangled starships. Any material sent by him may be
reobtained from me at MAV@LIZARDO.HUJI.AC.IL.
 
  I am VERY interested in 2300 material. I can offer quite a few 2300
craft designs and a very extensive starsystem/scenario set after the
Battle of Beowulf.
 
>    You also offered to act as intemediary in my requests for use of
>material from their mail in my magazine, if that offer is still
>available, I would like to ask the following people to use their
>material (I would also like to have their permission to have the material
>used in a new Official GDW MT newsletter that is being worked on):
>
>Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
>
> [... Rob, Scott and Bertil deleted :-)...]
>
>    I also need there addresses in the cases of those people I don't
>have one for. They will get a copy of the 'zine once I publish 4 of their
>designs, this might be awhile though as I tend to lack articles more than
>designs, especially if I can use their designs.
 
Permission granted, second time running. SnailMail address is in signature.
 
>     HIWG is going to do the MegaTraveller newsletter for GDW, to be
>called IMPERIAL LINES.  As it looks right now, it'll be quarterly, 8
>pages, and circulated from GDW.  Geo Gelinas will be chief editor.
 
  I am interested in the extreme.
 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Marc A. Volovic -                       Procrastinator and do-no-gooder|
| mav@LIZARDO.huji.ac.il     Snail: P.O.B. 23114, 91230 Jerusalem, Israel|
|             Dept. of Linguistics, Hebrew University, Mt. Scopus        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                       Fencers do it with rapid thrusts                 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2860
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Machinetools 1 (revised:)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 12:27:24 MET DST

  Ok, here we go again. These weapons use powder loadings similar to that in
real-life ammo when such exists. 

   Machinetools 1b

   Featured Weapons: 5mm Revolver
                     7mm Revolver
                     9mm Revolver
                     9mm Magnum Revolver

   On ammunition: The ammunition used in these these weapons is somewhat
standardzed. All calibers are pure metric calibers in millimeters, only the
Solomani use the inch based calibers common on old Terra (with one exception,
see the 9mm Magnum Revolver below). Originally Imperial forces used the old
classic calibers like 5.56mm, .357 and 9mm Parabellum, but following the
creation of the new dress code, Emperor Styryx issued a directive that all
Imperial acquisitions of new weapons had to be pure metric caliber weapons. It
was enforced by patching the software used by the Imperial Ministry of Defence
so that it didn't accept any decimals in the calibre. With the Imperium only
buying pure metric weapons, the major defence contractors soon followed and
redone their whole line to the new standard. This new standard was still
gradually making it's apperance fifty years later during the Solomani Rim War,
and some analysts claim that the less than optimum performance of some Imperial
units during the ground campaign on Terra was due to ammunition incompatibility
between regular and colonial forces, the latter which hadn't upgraded to the new
ammunition.
   The "I" designation for pure metric calibers originated within the
Intersellarms Megacorp - the official name was "P" for "Pure", but that usually
got confused with the Solomani "Parabellum". Witty sophonts use to claim that
the "I" now used by viritually everyone don't mean "Imperial" as Interstellarms
claims but "Interstellarms".
   While all pure metric caliber types of ammunition produced by Interstellarms
is called "I" there are a small number of other letters for ammunitions usually
associated with a specific service, like the "N" for the Navy line of snub
pistols and "M" for the IMCs 9mm Magnum.
   Techlevel is indicated by appending "-TL" after the ammunitions name.
5x10mmRI-7 AP is thus a techlevel 7 5x10mm Imperial armor piercing round for a
revolver. Extraimperial orgin use standard designations such as 'Da' and 'Zh'.

   On discounts: They are as given in good old 'Mercenary', ie on Pop 9+ worlds,
guns and ammo can be had at a discount. Guns are packed in cases of 20 (assume
that weapons in cases weigh 25% more and are 100% larger than normal). Buying a
full case will give 20% discount, 5 cases 40% and 50 cases for 60%. For ammo
those limits are 20, 100 and 1000 cases. Most cases are further divided into
paper or plastic boxes with each box containing enough for one magazine full.
For guns with small magasines (less than 30) one box generally contains 50
rounds.

   Remember that it's easier to buy many (over a thousand) weapons than just a
handful, because most manufacturers are more used to dealing with large
entities.

   On attenuation: Some weapons are of so low power that they have an
penetration/attenuation listed as 0/2. In those cases halve *damage* after each
two range bands.

   On compatibility: When using weapons and ammunition of different techlevels,
the combination will behave as the worst of them. In some cases, hightech
ammunition will lead to higher chanses of malfunction but this is detailed in
the text on each weapon.

   All prices are in local credits as defined in Striker. TL G didn't exist back
then so I have added it and expanded on the lower end. The local credits concept
means that, due to lower demand of their goods compared to the high tech worlds
of the imperium, low tech backwaters have weaker currencies than high tech trade
hubs. The concept of local credits don't seem to be around anymore, but on the
other hand, I haven't seen it explicitly discarded either:)

Value of one local credit in Imperial credits depending on local TL and port:

                  STARPORT
TL    A      B      C      D      E      X
G   1.20   1.15   1.10     -      -      -
F   1.00   0.95   0.90     -      -      -
E   0.90   0.85   0.80   0.75   0.70     -
D   0.80   0.75   0.70   0.65   0.60     -
C   0.70   0.65   0.60   0.55   0.50     -
B   0.60   0.55   0.50   0.45   0.40     -
A   0.50   0.45   0.40   0.35   0.30   0.30
9   0.40   0.35   0.30   0.25   0.20   0.20
8   0.30   0.25   0.20   0.15   0.10   0.10
7   0.20   0.15   0.10   0.08   0.05   0.05
6   0.10   0.08   0.05   0.04   0.03   0.03
5     -    0.05   0.03   0.02   0.01   0.01
4     -    0.03   0.01   0.01     -      -
3     -    0.01     -      -      -      -


Revolver 5mm

   There are no compatibility problems with the ammunition to this gun on
techlevels 5 to 9. Wildcatters that use tech 15 powder have only themselves to
blame. The ammunition used is the 5x10mmRI, it is sold in cases of 2000 rounds,
(Lead: 1liter 5kg Cr233) (AP: 1liter 4kg Cr466) (DS: 1liter 2kg Cr699) (APDS:
1liter 2kg Cr1398)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
5  Lead  6   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.11 0.33 57   0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.07 14
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.01 0.7

6  Lead  6   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.11 0.33 59   0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.06 14
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.01 0.7
   AP    6   1/1  2                                  0.01 1.4

7  Lead  6   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.11 0.33 61   0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.06 15
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.01 0.7
   AP    6   1/1  2                                  0.01 1.4

9  Lead  6   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.11 0.31 64   0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.06 16
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.01 0.7
   AP    6   1/1  2                                  0.01 1.4
   DS    6   1/2  2                                  0.01 2.1
   APDS  6   2/2  2                                  0.01 4.2


Revolver 7mm

   There are no compatibility problems with the ammunition to this gun on
techlevels 5 to 9. The ammunition used is the 7x13mmRI, it is sold in cases of
1000 rounds, (Lead: 1liter 7kg Cr117) (AP: 1liter 5kg Cr234) (DS: 1liter 3kg
Cr351)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
5  Lead  6   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.12 0.50 60   0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.08 15
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.03 0.7

6  Lead  6   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.12 0.50 63   0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.08 15
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.03 0.7
   AP    6   1/2  3                                  0.02 1.4

7  Lead  6   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.11 0.48 66   0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.08 16
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.03 0.7
   AP    6   1/2  3                                  0.02 1.4

9  Lead  6   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.11 0.46 70   0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.07 17
   Lead  6   1/2  3                                  0.03 0.7
   DS    6   2/2  2                                  0.01 2.1


Revolver 9mm

   All ammunition for this weapon at tech levels 4 to 9 is fully compatible with
no increased risk of malfunction. The ammunition used is 9x14mmRI and it is sold
in cases of 1000 rounds, (Lead: 2.6liters 14kg Cr136) (AP: 2.6liters 10kg Cr272)
(DS: 2.6liters 6kg Cr408) (APDS: 2.6liters 6kg Cr816).

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
4  Lead  6   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.22 1.16 67   0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.15 17
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.07 0.8

5  Lead  6   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.22 1.19 73   0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.14 18
   Lead  6   1/2  3                                  0.08 0.8

6  Lead  6   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.22 0.80 161  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.14 39
   Lead  6   1/2  3                                  0.07 0.8
   AP    6   2/2  3                                  0.05 1.6

7  Lead  6   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.22 0.79 178  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.13 43
   Lead  6   1/2  3                                  0.07 0.8
   AP    6   2/2  3                                  0.05 1.6

9  Lead  6   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.22 0.77 197  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.13 48
   Lead  6   1/2  3                                  0.07 0.9
   AP    6   2/2  3                                  0.05 1.8
   DS    6   3/2  3                                  0.02 2.7
   APDS  6   4/2  3                                  0.02 5.4


Revolver 9mm Magnum

   Although officially pure metric, the 9x22mmRM ammunition is in reality of
.357 caliber. The IMC managed to protect it from the metric purification of the
weapons by claiming that the revolver wasn't a weapon but a part of the uniform.
It is further notable as being the only widely available revolver that have
versions made at high techlevels. Due to recoil purposes the higher techlevel
models have different amounts of waste weight (TL12 50g, TL13 160g, TL14 280g,
TL15 420g, TL16 570). Full ammunition compatibility between all techlevels was
one of the original design requirements and it has been fulfilled despite the
fact that they originally only covered techlevels 5 to 13. 9x22mmRM ammunition
appear in cases of 1000, (Lead: 3.3liters 17kg Cr233) (AP: 3.3liters 12kg Cr470)
(HE: 3.3liters 7kg Cr670) (DS: 3.3liters 7kg Cr670) (APDS: 3.3liters 7kg
Cr1400).

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
5  Lead  6   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 1.09 181  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.23 45
   Lead  6   1/2  3                                  0.08 1.0

6  Lead  6   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 1.09 204  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.22 50
   Lead  6   1/2  3                                  0.08 1.1
   AP    6   2/2  3                                  0.06 2.2

7  Lead  6   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 1.07 231  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.21 56
   Lead  6   1/2  3                                  0.08 1.1
   AP    6   2/2  3                                  0.06 2.2

9  Lead  6   2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 1.04 262  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.20 64
   Lead  6   2/2  3                                  0.08 1.2
   AP    6   3/2  3                                  0.06 2.4
   DS    6   4/2  3                                  0.03 3.6
   APDS  6   6/2  3                                  0.03 4.8

10 Lead  6   2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.97 290  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.19 71
   Lead  6   2/2  3                                  0.08 1.2
   AP    6   3/2  3                                  0.06 2.4
   DS    6   4/2  3                                  0.03 3.6
   APDS  6   6/2  3                                  0.03 4.8

12 Lead  6   2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.92 312  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.17 77
   Lead  6   2/2  3                                  0.08 1.3
   AP    6   3/2  3                                  0.06 2.6
   DS    6   4/2  3                                  0.03 3.9
   APDS  6   7/2  3                                  0.03 5.2

13 Lead  6   2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.92 335  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.15 82
   Lead  6   2/2  3                                  0.08 1.3
   AP    6   3/2  3                                  0.06 2.6
   DS    6   5/2  3                                  0.03 3.9
   APDS  6   7/2  3                                  0.03 5.2

14 Lead  6   2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.92 360  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.12 88
   Lead  6   2/2  3                                  0.08 1.3
   AP    6   4/2  3                                  0.06 2.6
   HE    6   1/-  4                                  0.03 3.9
   DS    6   5/2  3                                  0.03 3.9
   APDS  6   8/2  3                                  0.03 5.2

15 Lead  6   2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.92 385  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.09 94
   Lead  6   2/2  3                                  0.08 1.4
   AP    6   4/2  3                                  0.06 2.8
   HE    6   1/-  4                                  0.03 4.2
   DS    6   5/2  3                                  0.03 4.2
   APDS  6   8/2  3                                  0.03 8.4

16 Lead  6   2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.93 411  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Drum  6                                           0.07 101
   Lead  6   2/2  3                                  0.07 1.4
   AP    6   4/2  3                                  0.05 2.8
   HE    6   1/-  4                                  0.03 4.2
   DS    6   5/2  3                                  0.03 4.2
   APDS  6   8/2  3                                  0.03 8.4

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Det a"r en Svensk grej. Du skulle inte fo"rsta^..."

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Thu Sep 19 00:17:37 1991
Received: from relay.tek.com by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA09235) Thu, 19 Sep 91 00:17:22 EDT
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA02516@relay.tek.com>; Wed, 18 Sep 91 21:00:41 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA00414; Wed, 18 Sep 91 21:03:40 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA07719; Wed, 18 Sep 91 21:00:23 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA01070; Wed, 18 Sep 91 21:00:17 PDT
Message-Id: <9109190400.AA01070@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #235: Msgs 2861-2868
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 91 21:00:16 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Sep 18 21:00:12 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #235: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2861  12-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Machinetools Special Edition << I got tired r
2862  12-Sep-91 James T Perkins   New Sector Data on Sunbane << Through the eff
2863  14-Sep-91 Richard Johnson   PBEM -Admin and Status << Well the PBEM seaso
2864  15-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au The Horde << Hi folks, Now that the word is o
2865  16-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Zhodani?! << > From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.ed
2866  16-Sep-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Happy 4th birthday! << James T Perkins <j
2867  16-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  The Horde, Part 2...30 tonners << Ship's Boat
2868  17-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Names << This is not about weapons or ships o

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2861
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Machinetools Special Edition
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 91 9:34:21 MET DST

I got tired remaking real-world weapons after a while so I tried something new:)
- -bertil-

   THE SEVEN TOP REASONS NOT TO VISIT THE KATERI SYSTEM.

   Featured Weapons: 20mm Pistol
                     20mm SMG
                     20mm Assaultrifle
                     10mm Caseless Assaultrifle
                     10mm Caseless 6-barrel Gatling Gun
                     21000Joule Laser "Rifle"
                     38000Joule Laser "Rifle"

   In Challenge #31, F L Cain wrote about the various troubles a 55cm long 
race would have with weapons technology as compared to the standard 180cm 
Humaniti. In essence the conclusion was that 'small arms' is a variable term 
when applied to different races, and smaller mass means that all weapons has 
to be lighter and with lower stopping power.

   A larger race would thus have an advantage over Humaniti, and an extreme 
example on this is the Brinn of Kateri (Corridor 2238 C8C0885-8. It's most 
notable feature is it's cyanide polluted methane-hydrogene atmosphere). The 
Brinn are ten-limbed, 1.2ton spider-like sophonts about as militant as the 
Virushi are pacifistic. They are currently engaged in a genocidal war against 
all neighbours. And the fact that their weapons can weight ten times as much 
as the comparable standard weapon isn't exactly helping the Humaniti side...
   (Brinn: Traveller Digest 12, pg 18-24)

   On Lasers: The DV of a laser is multiplied by two in a manner similar to 
that used for plasma and fusion guns (although their DV was multiplied by ten) 
in Greg Porters article. The multiplier for lasers is not in that article, but 
it is essential to make laser weapons similar to those in Traveller.

   On Smartguns: All smartguns has enough batteries to power all electronics 
in them for 4 hours. Recharge cost is neglible.

   New Ammo: Flechette ammo is a large number of metal arrows. Cannister is a
fancier name for shotgun ammo:)

Pistol 20mm

   This pistol has a very heavy grip and coarse trigger that enables it to be 
used by the taloned second set of limbs. The ammunition it is called 
20x54mmBr-8 by the Imperium but it's certainly not sold anywhere - the only 
way to get it is to go to Kateri and 'liberate' some, but here are the data 
for it anyhow: Cases hold 1000 rounds, (Lead: 40liters 186kg Cr646) (HP: 
40liters 186kg Cr646) (AP: 40liters 135kg Cr1292) (HE: 40liters 85kg Cr1938) 
(HEAP 40liters 85kg Cr3876) (Canister: 40liters 186kg Cr1297) (Flechette: 
40liters 135kg Cr1938)
   DS and APDS are experimental TL9 ammunition that is issued on a limited 
basis to the officers of those elite units that have recieved the new TL9 
weapons. (DS: 40liters 85kg Cr1938) (APDS: 40liters 85kg Cr3876)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len   Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Gun   30  5/3  4  VLg  -   -  Hi  Hi/R  Hand 0.58 11.07 1316 0.50 -2  2 1/1
   Clip  30                                           0.93 72
   Lead  30  5/3  4                                   4.66 19
   HP    30  4/3  5                                   4.66 29
   AP    30  8/3  4                                   3.40 38
   HE    30  2/-  6           3                       2.14 57
   HEAT  30  9/-  6          1.5                      2.14 114
   Cann  30  2/1  4          1.5                      4.66 29
   Flch  30  3/2  4          1.5                      3.40 57
  [DS    30 12/3  3                                   2.14 57]
  [APDS  30 17/3  3                                   2.14 114]


SMG 20mm

   Using the same ammunition as the 20mm pistol, this SMG is the primary 
weapons of lightly armed Brinn militia units. Grip and trigger are done 
similarly to the pistol. Ammunition data is found above. Since this weapon is 
used by the militia, no TL9 DS or APDS have been issued to it, but it would 
presumably work with it.

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len   Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Gun   50  5/3  4  VLg  3   -  Hi  Hi/R  Hand 0.58 13.83 1975 0.75 -2  2 1/1
   Clip  50                                           1.60 140
   Lead  50  5/3  4                                   7.76 19
   HP    50  4/3  5                                   7.76 29
   AP    50  8/3  4                                   5.67 38
   HE    50  2/-  6           3                       3.57 57
   HEAT  50  9/-  6          1.5                      3.57 114
   Cann  50  2/1  4          1.5                      7.76 29
   Flch  50  3/2  4          1.5                      5.67 57


Assaultrifle 20mm

   "It's like looking into the barrel of an autocannon. Our guys was decked 
out in combat, but they shot right through it, with tech-8 small arms!" one 
marine that fought during the storming of Divad Starport said about the 
mainstay of the regular Brinn forces: the 20mm Assaultrifle. The stock of this 
weapon is concave and designed to fit around the front of the dorsal sensor 
cluster while the weapon is suspended by one of the clawed arms, manipulated 
by the first pair and the user sights over it. This means that the Brinn only 
can fire within the front quarter and at an elevation of less than 30 degrees. 
The ammunition is called 20x115mmBr-8 and comes in cases of 500, (Lead: 
43liters 186kg Cr759) (HP: 43liters 186kg Cr1138) (AP: 43liters 135kg Cr1518) 
(HE: 43liters 85kg Cr2277) (HEAP 43liters 85kg Cr4554) (Canister: 43liters 
186kg Cr1518) (Flechette: 43liters 135kg Cr3036)
   DS and APDS is issued to certain elite units that hasn't yet recieved the 
new TL9 weapon. (DS: 43liters 85kg Cr2277) (APDS: 43liters 85kg Cr4554)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len   Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Gun   50  9/4  4  Dst  2   -  Hi  Hi/R  Rifl 1.22 25.42 4225 0.75 -4  2 1/3
   Clip  50                                           2.88 298
   Lead  50  9/4  4                                  14.42 76
   HP    50  6/4  6                                  14.42 114
   AP    50 13/3  4                                  11.06 152
   HE    50  4/-  8           3                       7.71 228
   HEAT  50  9/-  6          1.5                      7.71 456
   Cann  50  2/1  4           3                      14.42 152
   Flch  50  7/4  4          1.5                     11.06 304
  [DS    50 18/4  3                                   7.71 228]
  [APDS  50 22/4  3                                   7.71 456]


Assaultrifle 10mm Caseless

   This is the top reason never to go to to Kateri: The 10mm Assaultrifle 
issued in 1119. It fires 10x101mmClsBr-9 ammunition of several types, but the 
big difference between it and it's large caliber TL8 cousin is that it is a 
smartweapon. Togeather with the long barrer and the innovative design it gives 
a +5 to hit versus humans (+3 from the sensors, +2 from design/barrel). It 
also incorporates gyrostabilization and electronic sights. The IMC (Real 
Strephon) first encountered an example of it in an destroyed ship and evaluated
it as "Suffering from severe featuritis, will probably develop glitches in a 
real combat environment.". This evaluation was changed to "Extremely effective 
for it's techlevel." when it was encountered in combat. It's mounting is 
superficially similar to that of the 20mm Assaultrifle, but it really is more 
advanced by far. The gun back end is coupled to a ring around the armor cupola 
over the sensor cluster where it can be traversed 90 degrees to each side and 
elevated up to 80 degrees. The ammunition comes in cases of 5000 rounds, 
(Lead: 102liters 187kg Cr10750) (HP: 102liters 187kg Cr16125) (AP: 102liters 
137kg Cr21500) (HE: 102liters 87kg Cr32250) (Cannister: 102liters 187kg 
Cr21500) (Flechette: 102liters 137kg Cr42000) (DS: 102liters 87kg Cr32250) 
(APDS: 102liters 87kg Cr64500).

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len   Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
9  Gun  100  8/3  3  Dst  2   -  Hi  Hi/R  RSG5 1.02 31.13 7510 1.25 -4  2 1/2
   Clip 100                                           0.62 476
   Lead 100  8/3  3                                   3.12 215
   HP   100  5/3  6                                   3.12 322
   AP   100 12/2  3                                   2.29 430
   HE   100  4/-  8          1.5                      1.45 645
   Cann 100  2/1  3          1.5                      3.12 430
   Flch 100  6/3  3          1.5                      2.29 860
   DS   100 15/3  3                                   1.45 645
   APDS 100 20/3  3                                   1.45 1290

Note: Difficulty: RSG5 means Rifle w/ Scope+Gyro and +5 to hit, not that it is 
as difficult to use as ReadySetGo!5.0 :)


Gatling Gun 10mm Caseless

   Not very widely issued, the 10mm caseless Gatling was an experiment with 
caseless ammunition on techlevel 8. The Imperium calls the ammunition 
10x88mmClsBr-8. In usage, the weapon is mounted on a suspended arm from the 
body and manipulated with both of the first pair of arms. The ammunition comes 
via a chute from a box on the body. A case consists of 5 complete loaded feed-
boxes (5000 rounds), (Lead: 81liters 166kg Cr10765) (HP: 81liters 166kg
 Cr13775) (AP: 81liters 139kg Cr16785) (HE: 81liters 79kg Cr22805) (Cannister: 
166kg Cr16785) (Flechette: 81liters 139kg Cr28825).
   DS and APDS hasn't been issued except on a purely experimental basis. The 
only place they should be encountered is on proving ranges on Kateri. (DS: 
81liters 79kg Cr22805) (APDS: 81liters 79kg Cr40865).

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len   Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Gun   1k  5/3  3  Dst  -   -  Md  Hi/R  Rifl 1.16 48.72 3001 1.25 -4  1 1/3
   Box   1k                                           5.53 949
   Lead  1k  5/3  3                                  27.64 1204
   HP    1k  4/3  4                                  27.64 1806
   AP    1k  8/2  3                                  19.26 2408
   HE    1k  2/-  6          1.5                     10.88 3612
   Cann  1k  1/1  3          1.5                     27.64 2408
   Flch  1k  4/3  3          1.5                     19.26 4816
  [DS    1k 11/3  3                                  10.88 3612]
  [APDS  1k 16/3  3                                  10.88 7224]


21000Joule Laser "Rifle"

   This is the primary weapon for the Brinn space force boarding and security 
crews. It has aquired a nasty reputation because of the Brinn practice of 
using the beam setting to cut down defending troops and non-combatants alike. 
Each round of fire on the beam setting is equal to 3 shots. The pack is worn 
on the body and the squat gun is mounted on one of the second pair of 
appendages in a manner similar to the arm-mounted laser rifle used on many 
Imperial battledresses.

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len   Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Gun   50 17/3* 3  VLg  -   -  Hi  Lo    Rifl 0.30  9.42 12k  0.50 -1  2 1/1
    beam 16  4/3* 3  VLg  3+
   Pack  50                                         123.75 13k

* Before the attenuation is modified for corrossive atmosphere. With the 
  atmosphere in mind, it becomes 2.
+ When used as a beam laser, one pack will be enough for 100 seconds of fire. 
  Each target will actually be hit 1d10 times.


38000Joule Laser "Rifle"

   A more powerful and advanced version of the 21000 Joule laser, this weapon 
has not yet been encountered by the Imperium. Sofar, it has only been used on 
an experimental basis in a few boardings of isolated ships leaving no 
survivors. A decision to start producing it in numbers for elite boarding 
crews was taken by the Council of Valor in 256-1121. The weapon has electronic 
sights and uses the same smartgun sensor suite as the 10mm Caseless 
Assaultrifle, giving a +3 to hit versus Humans. Each round of fire on the beam 
setting is equal to 2 shots. The pack is worn on the body and the squat gun is 
mounted on one of the second pair of appendages in a manner similar to the arm-
mounted laser rifle used on many Imperial battledresses. The "scope" is really
a HUD.

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len   Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
9  Gun   50 19/3* 3  VLg  -   -  Md  Lo    RS3  0.30 15.16 19k  0.50 -1  2 1/1
    beam 24  4/3* 3  VLg  3+
   Pack  50                                         124.36 20k

Note: Difficulty RS3 means Rifle w/ Scope and +3 to hit.
* Before the attenuation is modified for corrossive atmosphere. With the atmosphere in mind, it becomes 2.
+ When used as a beam laser, one pack will be enough for 144 seconds of fire. Each target will actually be hit 1d10 times.

- -- 
"Det a"r en Svensk grej. Du skulle inte fo"rsta^..."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2862
Subject: New Sector Data on Sunbane
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 91 15:17:45 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


Through the efforts of Joe Heck, metlay, and Mark Cook, we now have some
relatively new, updated DGP Imperium Sector Data on the sunbane ftp site
(129.100.100.12).  I reorganized the sectors directory so that there is
now a dgp-original directory containing the old sector data (26
sectors), and a dgp-updated directory containing largely updated and new
material (35 sectors).  The updated data is freely distributable and
originated from the offices of DGP.  Of course, it is getting more and
more out of date with each new MT release.  Here's the README from the
pub/traveller/sectors directory:

MEGATRAVELLER SECTOR DATA

This directory contains sector data for the Traveller Imperium.  There
are two subdirectories in the sector data directory:

dgp-original    26 Sectors; this is the original sector data as
                submitted to GEnie by Digest Group Publications.  It
                contains a mixture of pre- and post-rebellion data.

dgp-updated     35 sectors; this is updated sector data provided by
                Digest Group Publications via a torturous route through
                the hands of several TML members.  While it still has
                some out-of-date material, it is largely more complete
                and up-to-date than the original data.  Thanks to Joe
                Heck, Mike Metlay, and Mark Cook for providing this
                data.

The TML administrator would appreciate a more detailed description of
the data than the above.  Send this information, if you have it, to
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2863
Subject: PBEM -Admin and Status
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 91 6:54:43 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

Well the PBEM season is *ALMOST* upon us.  I guess it never
left the sleepy berg of Hillsboro.  Here's a quick synopsis
of what to expect in the next few weeks.

1.  ***ALL***, I repeat  ALL  PBEM address will be different
    this year.  Dan Corrin has graciously consented to use
    uso.ca as a combination broadcast/forward/archive site.
    James Perkins has agreed to monitor address aliases (since 
    I so thoroughly proved my incompetence).

    Installation of the list is scheduled for next week, with
    testing to follow.  With luck, we should have a list of
    usable character names and lists for you to use by about
    the beginning of October.  Additionally, we will probably
    have a "pbem911@somesite" adress for pbem-related out-of-
    game (e-mail type) emergencies.

    When testing is done, we'll probably broadcast something
    and request a reply, to verify a complete circuit.

2.  With the amount of additional time I now have (and it is
    quite a lot -- thanks, guys), I'm actually working on the
    historical recap of the game to date that I promised
    as an intro to turn 91.0.

3.  Turns now have (yet) another official numbering scheme.
    This one will probalby stick around a while.  First
    two digits are season of play, in Gregorian year (i.e.
    the turn starting this fall begins 91.  The trun starting
    next fall begins 92.)  All succeeding numbers are
    non-negative intergers, in increasing order, beginning
    with 0.  If we have to amend a turn it will become some
    thing like "BPEM turn 91.13a".    Trivial stuff, I know.
    But necessary.

4.  If you have any comments, complaints, or suggestions for
    improvements or changes, let me know right away.  If you
    want to play, let me know right away and cc James, so 
    we can more quickly verify your address.

Happy playing.
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2864
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1991 21:08 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: The Horde

Hi folks,

Now that the word is out on what the Horde actually is I thought I should
say a few things about the design.

I tried to get the flavor of the old book 2 small craft into the Horde.
Thus there will be appearing (when Rob is finished editing my designs)
all of the small craft from that ancient text with the exception of the
standard fighter.    (If there is a request for one I will make one up)

All the craft have sufficient controls for the mounting of a turret.

I allowed sufficient controls for a triple turret installation.
Please note that installing a laser will severely reduce the maximum thrust
]
available because the laser is drawing power normally allocated to the
engines.  In most cases there is sufficient power output in the fusion
plant to power only one laser, where there is a 500MW reactor, there are
sufficient controls for two beam lasers and a missile rack.
In cases where there is less than 250MW the installation may not mount lasers
but may mount up to three missile racks.

In the majority of the cases there is only sufficient power for one laser
in these cases a triple turret may be mounted with a beam laser and two
missile racks.  (A pulse laser and sandcasters require fewer controls so
they are no problem.)

In all cases the addition of a laser will reduce the engine performance
rather drastically.  But if a single laser is installed, no design's engine
performance will fall below 1G.

The exception to this is the shuttle.  If 2 lasers are put in the shuttle,
the engines will NOT funtion.

As to the agility of the craft.  Well in almost all cases, there is No
power left over after all the systems are powered.  (Much to Rob's
annoyance I specified the engine output to eight significant figures which
means the engine size was accurate down to the cubic centimeter level)
He has since edited out this little practical joke)

If you believe that agility comes from "excess" power then all the designs
have agility zero.  But of course in combat, the pilot will use the
emergency agility and the agility goes back to the listed figure.
(Historical note:  The agility debate of a month ago or so started when Rob
and I began trying to agree on how to calculate the agilities for the
Horde.  Our concencus was sent to the TML, and that is what I used in the
designing of the Horde.)

Another note if you wish to arm your small craft:  There is no volume set
aside for a turret.  Any turret would presumably be added on to the ships
total volume, while fixed mounts would be subtracted from the cargo space.
Since Hangers for small craft are 130% the size of the craft I wouldn't see
much of a problem in dockin arising out of the increase in volume.
Pop turrets would of course be subtracted from interior volume (cargo space)

Fuel notes:  Most craft have a duration of 15 days.  That should be sufficient
for most interplanetary operations.  If you want more, use the rules in the
ref's manual for installing collapsable or demountable fuel tanks.

Sensors:  At TL9 EMS is not available.  Thus I tried to make up for it with
what I thought an interplanetary craft might require as a minimum.  All
weather radar (planetary range)  A radar direction finder for tuning in on
another planets navigation beacons during interplanetary flights, And (since
there are no telescopes in the sensor section) I put in a light Amplification
sensor to allow you to track your destination (presumably a planet)
At TL 10 and 11 EMS systems are so large (read expensive) I put in a
continental range Passive system.  If you can't see a PLANET with a continenta
l range system well... The haven't described a continental system very well
have they?  (For heavens sake you can see em with binoculars!)  Anyway, I don't
see this sub stitution as being a problem.

The prices on the ships do not include architects fees (It is a standard craft
after all)  But neither do they contain the 20% discount for the large
number of craft produced.  Players buying it out of the showroom will be
(or might be) subject to this discount.  They have after all been produced in
LARGE numbers therefore the discount will normally apply.

TL 16?  TL 17?  Well, that was kind of a joke...  I just wanted to see what would happen.  I briefly played with the anti-matter powerplants, but they would
have made the craft enormously expensive to fuel.  (Not to mention difficult)
Stick with fusion, if you get a fuel hit, your ship doesn't vaporize!

>From what I see a TL 21 small craft should perform virtually identically as the
TL 17 one.  The weight and volume of the electronics is the only thing that changes in the craft (as they are set up)  {NO I DON'T PLAN TAKING THESE THINGS UP
TO TL 21!!!}

I hope they are useful to you all.

Scott Kellogg
(one of the three Hordesmen of the apocolypse)

"Society is now one polish'd Horde,
 Formed of two mighty tribes,]
 The Bores and Bored."
	Don JJuan canto XIII st 95
	George Noel Gordon
	Horde Byron...

By the way, now that we have admitted the source of our mysterious
signatures and Hordendous puns, perhaps Bertil wil be so kind as to translate
the Zhodani that appears after his signature...?

"He's mad that trusts the tameness of a wolf, a Horde's health, a boy's love,
or a Horde's oath"
	King Lear

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2865
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Zhodani?!
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 9:05:55 MET DST

> From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
> By the way, now that we have admitted the source of our mysterious
> signatures and Hordendous puns, perhaps Bertil wil be so kind as to translate
> the Zhodani that appears after his signature...?

  Zhodani?!?!

  The only Traveller language it might be remotely similar to would be 
Sworldworldian (Swordworldsron? Sworldworldish? Swordish? Swordfish? :)

  "So, what does your .sig mean?"

  "It's a Swedish thing, you wouldn't understand."

  "Try me!"

  "It's a Swedish thing, you wouldn't understand."

  "How do you know before you tell me?!"

  "But I've already told you, it means *literally* 'It's a Swedish thing, you 
wouldn't understand':)"

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Time to get a new .sig"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2866
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Happy 4th birthday!
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 10:01:23 BST

James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR> writes:

> June 16, 1991 marks the fourth anniversary of the Traveller Mailing
> List.

See the comment marked * .

> Top 20 posters by volume, KB (1 Jul 90 to 1 Jul 21):
> 
>     Rob Dean 716	    Dave Boddie 103	    Jo Jaquinta 57
>     Richard Johnson 421	    Adrian Hurt 100	    Dan Corrin 53
>     Mark Cook 244	    T L Hayes 90	    Paul Dale 43
>     Bertil Jonell 231	    Burton Choinski 85	    James Baranski 40
>     metlay 145		    Brent Woods 73	    Peter Berghold 38
>     Stephen Smith 120	    Marc Volovic 70	    Joel Lovell 34
>     James Perkins 112	    George Herbert 70

Hm, with a little more effort I could be in the top 5.  ;-)

*
> If you can think of any way to make this list more useful, I'd like to
> hear your suggestions (even if they are "be more prompt, James!").

No complaints normally, but celebrating a June event in September?  Imagine
celebrating your Independence day on October 4.  :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2867
Date:     Mon, 16 Sep 91 13:45:44 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  The Horde, Part 2...30 tonners

Ship's Boat TL9-17

     The Ship's Boat provides a larger ship with the capability of
landing on any inhabitable world, and making rapid intrasystem journeys,
with a moderate load of cargo and/or passengers. With added weapons, it
has a secondary role as a space fighter.

  CraftID: Ship's Boat Type QB, TL9, MCr17.6
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40D, Unloaded=569t, 
           Loaded=773t/755t
    Power: 4/8, Fusion=333.4MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=6 (StdGrav=3315t), MaxAccel=4.40G, NOE=40kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=4
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: AllWeatherRadar=Planetary, RadarDirectionFinder, 
           Light Amplifcation, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Imp
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+6
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, CompLink*252
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls, airlock
    Other: Fuel=60kl, Cargo=200/182kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Ship's Boat Type QB, TL10, MCr20.2
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=580t, 
           Loaded=764/746t
    Power: 4/8, Fusion=358MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=6 (StdGrav=3315t), MaxAccel=4.45G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=4
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+6
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*269
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env,
           basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=64.51kl, Cargo=179/161kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Ship's Boat Type QB, TL11, MCr12.76
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=419t, 
           Loaded=696/678t
    Power: 5/9, Fusion=383MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=6 (Thrusters=3315t), MaxAccel=4.50G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=4
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+6
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*290
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=68.91kl, Cargo=171/153kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Ship's Boat Type QB, TL12, MCr19.75
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=609.4t, 
           Loaded=786t/768t
    Power: 5/9, Fusion=383MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=6 (Thrusters=3315t), MaxAccel=4.66G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=4
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+6
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*278
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=68.86kl, Cargo=171/153kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Ship's Boat Type QB, TL13, MCr15.37
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=479t,
           Loaded=674/656t
    Power: 3/6, Fusion=382MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=6 (Thrusters=3315t), MaxAccel=5.45G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=5
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+7
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=76.34kl, Cargo=190/172kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Ship's Boat Type QB, TL14, MCr15.11
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=415t, 
           Loaded=610/592t
    Power: 3/6, Fusion=382MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=6 (Thrusters=3315t), MaxAccel=6.03G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=6
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+8
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=76.31kl, Cargo=190/172kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Ship's Boat Type QB, TL15, MCr10.88
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=331t, 
           Loaded=554/536t
    Power: 2/3, Fusion=382MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=6 (Thrusters=3315t), MaxAccel=6.60G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=6
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+8
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=68.78kl, Cargo=218/200kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint




  CraftID: Ship's Boat Type QB, TL16, MCr10.20
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=306t, 
           Loaded=536/518t
    Power: 2/3, Fusion=382MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=6 (Thrusters=3315t), MaxAccel=6.67G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=6
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+8
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=65.54kl, Cargo=225/207kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Ship's Boat Type QB, TL17, MCr10.71
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40H, Unloaded=264t,
           Loaded=493/475t
    Power: 2/3, Fusion=382MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 5/10, Maneuver=6G (Thrusters=3315t), MaxAccel=7.24G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=6
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+8
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=65.54kl, Cargo=225/207kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

Slow Boat TL9-17

     The Slow Boat is a smaller and cheaper version of the Ship's Boat,
and provides a larger ship with the capability of landing on any inhabitable
world, and making intrasystem journeys, with a moderate load of cargo and/or
passengers. With added weapons, it has a secondary role as a space fighter.

  CraftID: Slow Boat Type QW, TL9, MCr10.34
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40D, Unloaded=380.5t,
           Loaded=681/663t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=158MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 3/5, Maneuver=3 (StdGrav=1560t), MaxAccel=2.36G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: AllWeatherRadar=Planetary, RadarDirectionFinder, Light
           Amplification, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Imp
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+4
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, CompLink*91
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, airlock
    Other: Fuel=28.43kl, Cargo=299/281kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Slow Boat Type QW, TL10, MCr13.02
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=393t, 
           Loaded=673/655t
    Power: 3/5, Fusion=185MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 3/5, Maneuver=3 (StdGrav=1560t), MaxAccel=2.39G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+4
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*138
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=33.32kl, Cargo=277/259kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Slow Boat Type QW, TL11, MCr12.76
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Unloaded=419t,
           Loaded=696/678t
    Power: 3/5, Fusion=196MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 3/5, Maneuver=3 (Thrusters=1560t), MaxAccel=2.48G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Continental, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+4
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*134
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=35.31kl, Cargo=274/256kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Slow Boat Type QW, TL12, MCr11.6
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=392t, 
           Loaded=669/651t
    Power: 3/5, Fusion=196MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 3/5, Maneuver=3 (Thrusters=1560t), MaxAccel=2.59G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+4
  Control: Computer=0*3, HUD*2, DynLink*122
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=35.26kl, Cargo=274/256kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Slow Boat Type QW, TL13, MCr9.39
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Unloaded=326t, 
           Loaded=612/594t
    Power: 2/3, Fusion=195MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 3/5, Maneuver=3 (Thrusters=1560t), MaxAccel=2.84G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+4
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=39.09kl, Cargo=283/265kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Slow Boat Type QW, TL14, MCr9.13
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=415t,
           Loaded=610/592t
    Power: 2/3, Fusion=195MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 3/5, Maneuver=3 (Thrusters=1560t), MaxAccel=3.18G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+5
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2, HoloLink*2
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=39.06kl, Cargo=283/265kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Slow Boat Type QW, TL15, MCr7.58
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=223t,
           Loaded=512/494t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=252MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 3/5, Maneuver=3 (Thrusters=1560t), MaxAccel=3.28G, NOE=40kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+5
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=45.36kl, Cargo=286/268kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Slow Boat Type QW, TL16, MCr7.37
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40G, Unloaded=209t,
           Loaded=494/476t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=195MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 3/5, Maneuver=3 (Thrusters=1560t), MaxAccel=3.54G, NOE=40kph,
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+5
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=50kl, Cargo=281/263kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint



  CraftID: Slow Boat Type QW, TL17, MCr7.88
     Hull: 27/68, Disp=30, Config=4SL, Armor=40H, Unloaded=166t,
           Loaded=451/433t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=195MW, Dur=15 days
     Loco: 3/5, Maneuver=3 (Thrusters=1560t), MaxAccel=3.89G, NOE=40kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, Top=1000kph, Agility=3
     Comm: Radio=System
  Sensors: ActEMS=Planetary, PassEMS=Interplanetary, ActObjScan=Diff,
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoint=1
      Def: DefDM=+5
  Control: Computer=0*3, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1, HoloLink*1
    Accom: Crew=1, Seats=Roomy*2, FoldingCramped*10, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, inertial comp, grav plates, airlock
    Other: Fuel=50kl, Cargo=281/263kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2868
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Names
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 9:18:41 MET DST

  This is not about weapons or ships or combat or any other of those hard
subjects I'm usually commenting, it's about last names.

  On real-world terra there is a profusion of last names in many languages.
Most of them means something but most of the time the name is treated like a
label which only meaning comes from what it indicates. The names Smith, 
King, and Thatcher comes to mind, because most people don't think "Aha, one
that makes horseshoes, a monarch, and one that fixes roofs." when they hear 
those names.

  It seems that, if given time, titles (even job-related) transforms into names.
Witness all the 'Baron' and 'Kahn' running around as some kind of proof of this.
My question is: Does this trend continue? Will the last names 'Chairman', 
'Manager' and 'President' make their appearance some time?

- -bertil-
- -- 
"C News and then die"

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Thu Sep 26 00:46:53 1991
Received: from relay.tek.com by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA01675) Thu, 26 Sep 91 00:42:18 EDT
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA19643@relay.tek.com>; Wed, 25 Sep 91 21:00:59 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA12867; Wed, 25 Sep 91 21:04:09 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA14608; Wed, 25 Sep 91 21:00:27 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA27968; Wed, 25 Sep 91 21:00:18 PDT
Message-Id: <9109260400.AA27968@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #236: Msgs 2869-2887
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 21:00:17 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Sep 25 21:00:12 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #236: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2869  17-Sep-91 Adrian Hurt       Guns 'R' Us << Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <ma
2870  18-Sep-91 MacGyver          New Era Of Traveller << Folks, here is someth
2871  18-Sep-91 William Henry Tim RE: (2868) Names << I doubt manager, chairman
2872  18-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Zhodani Trawlers... << Hello! Spy Stuff! Enjo
2873  18-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Re: Names... << Capitol/Core 111-1121 Today t
2874  18-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Hunting Rifles? << Quick question to the gun 
2875  20-Sep-91 James T Perkins   PBEM: Welcome to a new mailing list! << [Thos
2876  20-Sep-91 Mark F. Cook      A Word on Elephant Guns << In subject 2874, S
2877  20-Sep-91 James T Perkins   Administrivia << Apparently the local systems
2878  20-Sep-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Traveller Revision << Well Yet Another Travel
2879  21-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2878) Traveller Revision << > And what a
2880  21-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic Elephant Guns << To add to Mark Cook's answer
2881  21-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha A Question of Skill (Re: New Era) << > From: 
2882  23-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Names... << > From: William Henry Timmins
2883  23-Sep-91 KLAINE@kontu.cc.u Question from a novice referee << Like the su
2884  00-Jan-00 Alan Huscroft     Traveller revision << I agree with Ameer -- t
2885  23-Sep-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Traveller Mk III: An Editorial by, well, YOU 
2886  23-Sep-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN One example of an elephant gun << The elephan
2887  23-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic Guns are they! << Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heri

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2869
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Guns 'R' Us
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 14:48:04 BST

Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il> writes:
>  
> Firstly, the 92F is parallel to Imperial a 10mm SNUB (well, more or less).

If so, the Snub pistol has changed drastically since I (or my character,
at least) used it in Olde Traveller.  It got the name "snub" by having
a very short barrel, was very low velocity, and fired several different
types of ammo, mostly illegal on most planets by being either explosive
or gas.  It was also low recoil, which made it great for shipboard
security (where you didn't have to worry about minor details like local
laws).  The Beretta 92F is an example of what Striker calls a "9mm
auto pistol".  :-)

> The primary problem with Traveller equipment (ALL equipment, except
> vehicles and ships) is that there is only ONE version of everything.

Now for the important part of this message.  I also didn't like this, and
came up with a quick and simple solution.  The following table gives
modifications made to the standard guns listed in the books:

Code	Ammo/clip	Accuracy	Price
- ---------------------------------------------
1	    -		   -		-15%
2	    -		   0		-5%
3	    -		   +		+5%
4	    0		   -		-10%
5	    0		   0		0
6	    0		   +		+10%
7	    +		   -		-5%
8	    +		   0		+5%
9	    +		   +		+15%

Amount by which to alter ammo capacity:
Revolver		+/- 1 round in the chamber

Shotgun			- means single or double-barrelled
			+ means 10 round magazine

Rifle			+/- 5 rounds

Auto pistol		-50%, +20% of the standard capacity

Auto/assault rifle	+/- 30% of the standard capacity

LAG			+/- 1 round

Energy weapons		+/- 20% (weapons with "infinite" capacity
			only use codes 4-6, variation being meaningless)

Crew served weapons	+/- 20%


I implemented alterations in accuracy by altering the range bands by
+/- 10%.

So, a standard 9mm auto pistol as listed in Striker Book 3 has a
magazine capacity of 15, effective range of 10m, long range of 40m,
and extreme range of 90m.  (Which is ludicrous - my air pistol can do
better than that - but it will do for this example.)  A code 7 pistol
has a + on ammo, so 15 + 20% = 18; it also has a - on accuracy, which
for those figures really does nothing to the effective and long ranges,
but brings the extreme range down to 80m.  (Striker worked on a 1/1000
scale, and the ranges are all listed in the book as integer values of
cm.  Unless you want to measure things to millimetre precision, which
the authors apparently did not want to do, this simply changes the
extreme range on the game table from 9cm to 8cm.)  The standard 9mm
auto pistol costs Cr200; the code 7 version costs Cr190.

In addition, I had other options which could be added at the GM's leisure.
These are summed up in the following table:

Code letter	Meaning					Price alteration
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jn		DM +n to jam				-n*5%
    S		Stock available.  On pistols, this	+10%
		doubles the range; on longarms, it
		is a folding stock.
    +		Weapon exceptionally suited to the	0 (or GM's choice)
		PC.  +1 DEX when firing.
    -		Weapon exceptionally uncomfortable
		for the PC.  -1 DEX.
    B		Barrel extension available.  Usually	+10%
		only for pistols.  +20% range.
    F		Flash eliminator available.		+10%
    NF		No flash eliminator - applies only	-Cr50
		to military weapons where one would
		be expected as standard.
    Si		Silencer can be fitted.			Cr10

The prices above only mean that something has been done to the weapon
to make fitting an accessory possible, e.g. threading the barrel tip for
a barrel extension or silencer.  The accessories themselves cost extra:
most are listed in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia.  The pistol barrel
extension costs 10% of the price of the pistol itself.  Alternatively,
it may be a whole replacement barrel, costing 20% of the price of the
pistol.

The Jn option (GM's option, not PC's!) referred back to the fact that in
my games, a natural 2 meant the gun had jammed - except that if the gun
had a J1 code, a natural 2 or 3 would do it.  No-one ever used a J2 gun!
Something similar can be worked out for the task system, using the J code
number as a modifier on the mishap table.

I got the idea of the barrel extension from Gordon Dickson's "Tactics of
Mistake".  It would probably be most practical on a snub pistol, because
of that weapon's lower propellant pressure.

> Now - in Traveller we only have "10mm Auto." What about a "Intellarms
> S-56 10mm Auto with gyrostabilizer?" Or a "BendArCo 23dm double magazine
> 10mm?" Or "Causative XMH-242 8mm, gyrostab, integral bipod, laser
> rangefinder and designator?"

A bipod on a pistol?  Novel idea, but I don't know if it would sell.  :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2870
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: New Era Of Traveller
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 91 2:24:56 EDT

Folks, here is something you might be interested in.

GDW will introduce Star Viking at the next GenCon.(August) This will
cause a very BIG background change. The story goes something like this,
one of the guy(don't know which one yet) wants to gain the throne,
so he created a computer virus. It works well, too well actually.
It freezed all the big useful computers, including his own. Thus, 
we experience a big drop in the tech level. FTL is still possible however. 
But the overall tech level is down. 

Then, around the end of the year, GDW will intrdouce the next 
revision of Traveller. Not MegaTraveller, not GigaTraveller,
but Traveller the revision. [I've always thought MegaTraveller is
a silly name.] The system will be changed so it's compatible with
TW2000 the 2nd edition, Dark Conspiracy, etc. Because GDW has decided to
use TW2000 2nd edition rules as the offical house system now.
The work on Traveller the revision has started, barely but started.
The developered is headed by Chuck Gannon, who is also the Traveller
editor for the Challenge magazine. And remember how terrible 
the rulebook as far as proof reading goes in MT? This won't happen
again, apprently they've changed and got rid of all those people
that's responsbile for that proof reading. Also, they promised
better support. There will not be any involement from outside
groups like the last time, from what I heard. It seems GDW will
do this one in house, so I guess both HIWG and DGP won't be
connected to it unlike the last time. DGP is probably devoting
its entire resource to A.I. anyhow.

				Mac

Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | grounded for a week!
=====================================| 			- Gloria
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2871
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1991 10:43:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RE: (2868) Names

I doubt manager, chairman (person?), or president will become last names.

You're missing an important point: those last names came out of the
practice of naming people by profession, ie- John the Archer, Lars the
Smith, and Tim the Enchanter :)

People just dropped the 'the' after awhile. 

It's one type of common naming techniques.

Others-
animals- "john Bearclaw"
actions- "john runner-over-water"
descriptive- "john redeye"
parental- "john ericson" < "john eric's son"
clan- "john O'Henry" < "john of the Henries" (mac and mc I assume are
similar, but from Gaelic)
professional- "john carpenter" < "john the carpenter"
numeral- "john unthirtu" < "john 132"

Oh, sorry... numerical derivations haven't occurred yet... ;)

- -Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2872
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1991 15:55 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Zhodani Trawlers...

Hello!

Spy Stuff!  Enjoy!

Scott Kellogg
The Horde is here!


Zhodani Trader TL 14 "Derrida" Class (Translation "Songbird")
Imperial designation "Trawler"

CraftID:	Zhodani Trader, Type (Z)M, TL 14
		MCr 131.7128+Ship's Boat
Hull:	(360/900) Disp=400 Config=4SL, Armor=40G,
		Unload=2535, Load=4551
Power:	(9/17) Fusion=1085Mw, Dur=(30dy +24hr at combat power
		{with laser powered up})
Loco:	(8/15) Manuver=1G, (11/22) Jump=2, MaxAccl=1.26,
		NOE=180, Cruise=750, Top=1000, Agility=1
Comm:	Radio=System*2, Maser=System
Sensors:	EMM, P-EMS=Interstel, A-EMS=FarOrb,
		Densitometer=100m, Neutrino=10kw
		ActObjScn=Rout	ActObjPin=Rout
		PasObjScn=Rout	PasObjPin=Dif
		PasEnScn=Simp	PasEnPin=Rout
Off:		HPts=4
		PLaser=x02
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Def:		DefDM=+4
		SCaster=xx3
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Control:	Computer=2*3, HoloHUD=5, HoloLink=5, LrgHoloDisp=1
Accom:	Crew=7(Bridge=2, Engineer=2, Gunner=1, Medic=1,
		Steward=1) (Passenger=11, LowPassenger=32)
		Stateroom=16, LowBerth=32,
		BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, I-Comps, G-Plates
		(See below on fuel tank environ)
Other:	Fuel=1158Kl(1 Jump-2+30dy+24hr@full pwr), Cargo=1430Kl,
		SubCraft=Ship's Boat, Scoops, Fuel Pure=6hr,
		ObjSize=Avg, EMlevel=Faint--None @ cruise power
Remarks:	The Derrida M is the most common Zhodani trader
encountered in the Spinward Marches and Ikar sectors (Foreven for
you Deaf Imperials)  It is made to look identical to the Consular
Navy fleet observer.  The traders are often sold at a discount to
merchants doing business with the lying, stealing deadheads.  In
this way the real fleet observers are given a bit more
annonymity.
	The ship's fuel tanks have a gravitic holographic system
installed for half of their volume.  By creating a pattern of
interfering gravitic waves, the tanks can be made to appear to
contain fuel where there is in fact cargo.  The layout of the
standard trader is identical to that of the fleet observer.  This
results in a 'lost' volume of 121Kl where electronic equipment is
'missing'.  This volume is distributed around the ship in an
effort to conceal it.  In the standard trader this volume is
sometimes used for smuggling, but most often merely contains
electronic spares so as to read identical to the fleet observer
on densiometer scans.


Zhodani Trader TL 14 "Derrida" Class (Translation "Songbird")
Imperial designation "Trawler"

CraftID:	Zhodani Trader, Type (Z)QM, TL 14
		MCr 228.9474+Ship's Boat
Hull:	(360/900) Disp=400 Config=4SL, Armor=40G,
		Unload=2535, Load=4551
Power:	(9/17) Fusion=1085Mw, Dur=(30dy +24hr at combat power
		{with laser powered up})
Loco:	(8/15) Manuver=1G, (11/22) Jump=2, MaxAccl=1.26,
		NOE=180, Cruise=750, Top=1000, Agility=1
Comm:	Radio=System*3, Maser=System*3, RadioJam=System
Sensors:	EMM, P-EMS=Interstel*2, A-EMS=FarOrb*2,
		Densitometer=250m*2, Neutrino=10kw*2, EMS-Jam=FarOrb
		ActObjScn=Rout	ActObjPin=Rout
		PasObjScn=Rout	PasObjPin=Rout
		PasEnScn=Simp	PasEnPin=Rout
Off:		HPts=4
		PLaser=x02
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Def:		DefDM=+10
		SCaster=xx3
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Control:	Computer=8fib*3, Model=2*3, HoloHUD=5, HoloLink=5,
		LrgHoloDisp=1
Accom:	Crew=7(Bridge=2, Engineer=2, Gunner=1, Medic=1,
		Steward=1) (Passenger=11, LowPassenger=32)
		Stateroom=16, LowBerth=32,
		BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, I-Comps, G-Plates
		(See above on fuel tank environ)
Other:	Fuel=1158Kl(1 Jump-2+30dy+24hr@full pwr), Cargo=1430Kl,
		SubCraft=Ship's Boat, Scoops, Fuel Pure=6hr,
		ObjSize=Avg, EMlevel=Faint--None @ cruise power
Remarks:	The Derrida QM is a fleet shadow.  It is most often
found in Imperial space conducting operations as a 'Harmless
trader' There is almost always (87.56%) a Derrida conducting
'trade' at the major Imperial naval bases.  It is said that the
Imperial fleet admirals feel naked without their Derrida
following at a descreet distance.
	On more than one occasion, Derrida observers have been
instrumental in rescuing Imperial Naval personnel.  There was the
famous case in 1103 when the ISS Stag (a Gazelle class close
escort) suffered a main engine failure while descending to skim
from a gas giant.  With the fleet out of range and no time to
lose, the Dzojarr, a Derrida observer responded to the distress
call and was able to rescue the crew before the ship burned up. 
The crew of the Dzojarr were awarded the Starburst for Extreme
Heroism.
	As noted above, the fleet observer has an additional 121Kl
of electronics aboard.  This is distributed evenly around the
ship to prevent identification.  The gravitic hologram system is
in place as above.
	The Imperial designation "Trawler" comes from old history
but it's derivation is not fully understood.

(Chuckle)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2873
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1991 16:28 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: Names...

Capitol/Core				111-1121
Today the ceremonies for the investiture of knighthood of the brave
Naval Captain who saved 115 Marines from certain destruction on the
planet Stinkybinky.  From now on he shall be known to the Imperium as:
Sir Captain Thomas Charterdaccountant...

Snickeringly yours,
Scott Snicker Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2874
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1991 16:49 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Hunting Rifles?

Quick question to the gun experts:

What is an elephant gun?  What type of ammunition does it use?
What sort of Penetration/Damage does it have.

The hunting rifle as listed in Trav does not seem to be up to
a description I read a long time ago (something about George
Orwell shooting an elephant)

According to him, firing a large number of rounds with a normal
rifle did little harm to the elephant compared with the
elephant gun.

Thanks,
Scott Kellogg
"For shame doc... Huntin' rabbits with an elephant gun..."

"Ewephant gun?"   -Bugs Bunny and Elmer PHudd

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2875
Subject: PBEM: Welcome to a new mailing list!
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 12:10:57 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>

[Those not interested in Richard's PBEM can skip this message - James]

		First there was Glasnost, now Perestroika...

Hello fellow PBEMers! It's always been a major chore for everyone in the
PBEM to maintain their own copy of the PBEM aliases.  Richard and I were
discussing this one day via email with Dan Corrin.  I opened my mouth
just a little too far and offered to maintain a set of aliases for
Richard and everyone else on the PBEM.  Richard, being no fool, refused
to let me get out of it, so after a couple weeks of struggling, late
hours, and poking and prodding, I am proud to announce the new PBEM
mailing list!

If you:
	1) are a PBEM player, and
	2) recieve this in the TML digest, and
	3) do not recieve a copy of this as personal mail, then
	4) send mail to pbem-request@engrg.uwo.ca.

N   N OOOOO TTTTT EEEEE	
NN  N O   O   T   E      ::
N N N O   O   T   E      ::	THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE PBEM HAS
N  NN O   O   T   EEE		STARTED UP YET - IT'S JUST MORE
N   N O   O   T   E		INFORMATION.  THIS INFORMATION HAS
N   N O   O   T   E      ::	BEEN BLESSED BY RICHARD AS OFFICAL.
N   N OOOOO   T   EEEEE  ::

To mail to everyone on the PBEM, send email to: pbem@engrg.uwo.ca.  I
forsee this alias as being the most frequently used for most pbem
traffic.  This single alias causes distribution to the three-dozen or so
PBEM members.  It also makes sure that Richard gets a copy, and deposits
a copy of the mail in an archive file where I can get to it on sunbane.
You are now freed of having to worry what people's addresses are and who
has joined or left the PBEM.  Now it's my problem :-).

If you have a question or dialogue for Richard (the PBEM Referee) alone,
you can send it to pbemref@engrg.uwo.ca.

If you have an email address change, you can mail it to
pbem-request@engrg.uwo.ca.  Richard and I only will recieve this mail.

If you have an email emergency (like PBEM mail is going to the wrong
mailbox, or someone has noticed all this PBEM mail and is going to,
heaven forbid, yank your email account), send mail to
pbem911@engrg.uwo.ca.  This alias (named after the telephone distress
line popular in the United States) will send email to Dan Corrin,
Richard, metlay, and myself and one of us can do an emergency patch to
alleviate the problem.

If you want to reach a specific character, you no longer need worry what
the email address of that character is! You just mail to
pbem<character>@engrg.uwo.ca.  For example, Commander Ger is
pbemger@engrg.uwo.ca, and Bhyarrvouf is pbemvouf@engrg.uwo.ca.  Here's
the definitive list of all the character aliases:

	pbemabuko         pbemferdy         pbemmerwe         pbemsilvmane      
	pbemaiwi          pbemfrieder       pbemmorser        pbemsokoku        
	pbemakhouw        pbemger           pbemmrog          pbemspear         
	pbemayrlathi      pbemgoughzar      pbemnarayanan     pbemtabor         
	pbemazani         pbemgrey          pbemnayduz        pbemthomas        
	pbembishop        pbemhammer        pbemneriika       pbemtweel         
	pbemblaine        pbemhooper        pbemnewphin       pbemvoga          
	pbemdeaith        pbemhorne         pbemniigurd       pbemvouf          
	pbemdemer         pbemhryawi        pbemrak           pbemwerner        
	pbemdevious       pbemiasic         pbemralf          pbemwitfield      
	pbemdezierd       pbemjett          pbemredd          pbemwrinkley      
	pbemdoejin        pbemjonson        pbemrobins        pbemyorblin       
	pbemedmondsen     pbemkatie         pbemschmud        pbemziggy         
	pbemeihoftyah     pbemlimner        pbemseverin       pbemlisteners     
	pbemfarouk        pbemmahlel        pbemshrike        

Again, mail to any one of these addresses will be forwarded to the
player playing the character (pbemlisteners is a special case, and
covers two people listening in on the activites, but not involved in
play).  Also, for GM purposes, a copy of the email will go to Richard,
and another will be filed in an private archive summary file.

In the case of players who have lost their e-mail access, or have left
the playing field temporarily or permanently (example: the character
Much T'B'Dezierd), they still have a character alias (pbemdezierd), but
the mail is forwarded to Richard instead of the original player.  This
mechanism allows for easy temporary suspension, too (Dr.  Werner,
pbemwerner, played by Ron Abramson, has been temporarily redirected to
Richard Johnson).

There are also aliases for several large subgroups of characters.  These
are:

	pbemaslan	all aslan
	pbemralphan	all on ralpha
	pbemskaad	all turnskaad employees
	pbemshuttle	all on command shuttle
	pbemtalisman	all on talisman
	pbempaladin	all on paladin
	pbemalcyon	all on alcyon
	pbemaurora	all on aurora
	pbemphin	all phins
	pbem		everyone in the pbem
	pbemall		ditto. everyone in the pbem

So, for example, if I wanted to inform everyone in the PBEM of Charyn
Robins' (my character) activities, I would mail it to pbem@engrg.uwo.ca.
If she had a matter only for people on the Paladin starship, where she
is Nav/Comm, I will mail to pbempaladin@engrg.uwo.ca.  If she was having
a very private discussion with the Dr.  Christian Van Der Merwe, I'll
mail it to pbemmerwe@engrg.uwo.ca.  And lastly, if I had a question for
Richard alone, I'd mail it to pbemref@engrg.uwo.ca.

James

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2876
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: A Word on Elephant Guns
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 13:08:36 PDT

In subject 2874, Scott Kellogg <KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu>  writes:

> Quick question to the gun experts:
> 
> What is an elephant gun?  What type of ammunition does it use?
> What sort of Penetration/Damage does it have.
> 
> The hunting rifle as listed in Trav does not seem to be up to
> a description I read a long time ago (something about George
> Orwell shooting an elephant)
> 
> According to him, firing a large number of rounds with a normal
> rifle did little harm to the elephant compared with the
> elephant gun.

Well, speaking as an ex-Marine with lots o' hunting experience with
a *HUGE* variety of weapons, and rabid NRA member (whatever that's
got to do with anything), here goes. :-)

The above description is fairly accurate.  The question is not one
of velocity, but of slug mass (and big kenetic energy, as a result).
While something like a 30-06 is usually considered an adequate hunting
rifle for most types of big game (up to and including Kodiak and Polar
bears), it would take an extremely well placed shot (maybe several) to
drop an African elephant or water buffalo.  The problem is tha the
animals vital organs are so deep in the body that the must generate a
massive trauma on surface impact to have any stopping power.  An .-06
wound would probably kill the elephant eventually, but not before it
ran over both the hunter and the Range Rover he fired from. :-)

For *really* big game, enthusiasts use something like a .458 Winchester
Magnum (Ruger No. 3 Tropical rifle) or a .460 Weatherby Magnum.  Around the
turn of the century, one of the popular African big game rounds available
(although hard to find today) was the Holland & Holland .600 Nitro Express.
The shells were as big as cigars and the slug was the size of your thumb.
On impact, they created hideous pie plate-sized wounds.  Hydrostatic shock
and massive blood loss usually dropped the animal in it's tracks.
Supposedly, these rounds could split a water buffalo's skull (30-06 rounds,
on the other hand, have been known to ricochete).  If fired at a human
being, a Nitro Express slug would leave a bloody neck stump after a
head-shot, and if fired at the torso, could potentially tear a person
in half if the spine were struck.

I don't have my MT rules here at work, but I'd probably give the
H&H round a PEN of about 8 or 9, and a Dmg. in the range of 6 to 7.

One final note: the H&H .600 Nitro Express only fires 2 shots before
reloading (it looks like a double-barreled shotgun and reloads the
same way).  The Ruger No. 3 Tropical rifle, chambered for the .458
Winchester Magnum is a single-shot weapon with a rolling block
reload.  The .460 Weatherby Magnum is a 3-shot bolt-action.  All
three have a terrible recoil (although the Weatherby *does* have
a very nice recoil pad).  I'd probably rule that any MT character
with either a STR or CON of less than 8 would be knocked over by
the kick (or at least make it a Formidable task to stay on their
feet).

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2877
Subject: Administrivia
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 14:07:54 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


Apparently the local systems folks are fighting an anal-retentive local
system named wrgate.wr.tek.com, which is the Tek Walker Road gateway to
the Tek central mail agency (at tektronix.tek.com).  All mail to/from
metolius goes through wrgate.  Well, they must've given it an enema
today, since a TML message that had been stuck since Wednesday finally
flushed its way out onto the internet.  Other posts today went well, so
I'm hoping that the problem was temporary.

I've been seeing addresses flow out onto the internet of the form
"user@metolius.WR" again, so it appears the "not appending .tek.com" bug
is back.  I'm monitoring it.  Watch your auto-replies!

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2878
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1991 17:26 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Traveller Revision


Well Yet Another Traveller Revision.....

While I will be the first to jump out and say that GDW needs to get its
act together vis a vis MT or Traveller. I am annoyed at their "universe
tinkering". The rules badly need revision ( and proof reading) but this
rumored change will leave nothing of the old Traveller behind. 

And what about us die hard Travellers do we have to shell out another
30-40 for a new update which will be revised in another 6 mths. Do we
get a refund for Ships of the Shattered Imperium or the old rule books,
kind of like a trade in.

I have a nagging suspicion that GDW's promises of a clean product will be
unkept. 

My 2 credits.

Ameer Sulaiman.

P.S. I can't seem to get e-mail through to Rob Dean. Could u please send me
your address again. Apparently u have no problem getting to me....



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2879
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2878) Traveller Revision
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 91 0:45:07 EDT

> And what about us die hard Travellers do we have to shell out another
> 30-40 for a new update which will be revised in another 6 mths. Do we
> get a refund for Ships of the Shattered Imperium or the old rule books,
> kind of like a trade in.
> 
> I have a nagging suspicion that GDW's promises of a clean product will be
> unkept. 

	Well, I have my suspicion too. But GDW has really improved
from what I have seen, juding by the year of 91. GDW's rule used to
be ill proof-read, ill play-tested. MT is a good example, the first edition
of TW2000 is another good example. Not to mention stuff like the MT
sharship of SI. 

	But their recent products have imporved quite a bit. If the proof
read level is anything like TW2000 the 2nd edition, or Dark Conspiracy,
I'd been very happy. 

	BTW, the revision is not due till the end of 92, which is more
than a year away.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2880
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 91 02:06:54 PDT
Subject: Elephant Guns


To add to Mark Cook's answer about Elephant guns - the H&H .600 NE could
(supposedly) stop a charging elephant in a head on shot from 30-40 meters.
I have no idea if this is true, not would like to check on a real, live
elephant.

Marc

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2881
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: A Question of Skill (Re: New Era)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 91 16:59:38 MET DST

> From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
> Subject: (2870) New Era Of Traveller
> 
> The system will be changed so it's compatible with
> TW2000 the 2nd edition, Dark Conspiracy, etc. Because GDW has decided to
> use TW2000 2nd edition rules as the offical house system now.

  My thoughts on this are mixed. The first impression I get is that GDW is
couldn't patch a SF-rpg on the Twilight/Merc/Dinos/Dark line with a straight
face at the same time as they have MegaTraveller as a living system. That is 
the positive interpretation. The negative interpretation is that they try to
get their Traveller audience to get hooked on the T/M/D/D line.

  Now, on to the system. I can say without modification that I like the
task system above the system T2k uses for skill success resolution. It is 
possible to cram a lot more info in a task description than it is in the rather
flimsy method T2k uses.
  
  There is also one big problem with the system T2k uses for this and for 
determining wether one hit or miss with a weapon: If you have zero skill you
have zero chance hitting in any situation.
  So I went to an old army officer I know who have instructed recruits in using
a rifle for several years and asked him thus:
  "In system one you have zero chance hitting in any situation if you have
zero skill, and the chance goes up 10% per level.
   In system two you have a small chance of hitting if you have no skill at all.
If you get some basic training this goes up a big step, and additional
skill improves it by little steps.
   Which of these two systems most accurately represent reality?"
   To which he answered:
   "The second one."

  So while I like way T2k handles successful hits, and the way it conducts
autofire, I think that the T2k skill resolution and to-hit procedure would be
a step backwards.

  I also humbly wonder if a T2k-ification of Traveller would mean that they 
would leave the "Give'em a design system and let'em make their own vehicles"
model from Traveller and MegaTraveller and transfer to a "Give'em lots and
lots of expensive books where they can find the vehicle data." model like in
Twilight.

> And remember how terrible 
> the rulebook as far as proof reading goes in MT? This won't happen
> again, apprently they've changed and got rid of all those people
> that's responsbile for that proof reading.

  What proofreading?

> Also, they promised
> better support. There will not be any involement from outside
> groups like the last time, from what I heard.

  I have my reservations on wether "Better support" and "No outside 
involvement" are compatible goals for a company with as many things in the
air at the same time as GDW. Compared to, TSR say, they are much smaller and
have many more product lines. And trying to make too many things at once is
an extremely dangerous path for a games company.

> Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Drow! Drow! Drow! Everywhere Drow! Now they've even started to crop up in
 GDW books!"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2882
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Names...
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 10:25:04 MET DST

> From: William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
> Subject: (2871) RE: (2868) Names
> 
> I doubt manager, chairman (person?), or president will become last names.

  Ok, chairsophont then:)
 
> You're missing an important point: those last names came out of the
> practice of naming people by profession, ie- John the Archer, Lars the
> Smith, and Tim the Enchanter :)

  Well, that is true for Margaret the Thatcher but not Bengt the Baron or
Stephen the King. At the time people were named by profession, the average
king would have taken a very dim view on any and all Stephens calling themselves
'King':)

  And there are families where the title of, for example president, seems to
be passed down as if inherited.

> - -Me
> [Pooh Bear incarnate.]

- -bertil-
- -- 
'Det a"r oo"versa"ttbart...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2883
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1991 12:11 EET
From: KLAINE@kontu.cc.utu.fi
Subject: Question from a novice referee


Like the subject line says, I'm fairly new to the game. Our campaign started
in May and we had a summer break, so I haven't played so much.
OK, my problem is this: let's assume that a ship misjumps and the crew finds
themselves 2 parsecs from the nearest system, without jump fuel. They go
to Low Berths and shut down all systems on the ships except one computer
and the Berths. Thus the power plant has to produce only about 0.01 MW of
power, instead of the usual 1000+ MW. The power plant could then run for
years on its fuel.
Is this possible by the MegaTraveller rules? Does this sound completely
irrational/silly or something?
Any suggestions and advice from more experienced refs is very welcome.

Please email directly to me, if possible.

INTERNET: klaine@kontu.utu.fi

          (Kai Laine, University of Turku, Finland)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2884
Date: Monday 23rd September 1991 10:43:31 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Traveller revision

 
I agree with Ameer -- the game mechanics need revision and proofreading,
but Leave Our Universe Alone!  The setting for the game is the single
most important factor in making it so popular for so long.  I think it
would be insane to make such drastic changes.  For my part, I'm still
having trouble getting used to the Rebellion.
 
I find all this stuff about a computer virus causing widespread havoc
across the Imperium to be higly dubious at best.  Even if a mechanism
for carrying it from world to world could be contrived, it's hard to
believe that the computer technology on the myriad different worlds
would be sufficiently compatible to allow it to thrive.
 
What is the HIWG's view about this upheaval, I wonder?  Or DGP's?
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2885
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 09:43:35 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Traveller Mk III: An Editorial by, well, YOU know.


The following is the opinion of one (albeit listened-to) member of
the Traveller Mailing List, and does not reflect the opinions of
the List's membership or of the poor sod who's forced to run it
(hi, James). It will prove offensive to a lot of you people, and
the author doesn't give a fuck. Okay?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------


So they're at it again. "Star Viking." "Traveller-- the Revision."

*sigh*

I would very much like to determine whether or not this is a hoax, a
cruel joke, or-- Lord help me-- the truth. Especially since any TMLer
who bothers to read .signature files will have noted by now that the
Chuck Gannon mentioned in Mac's latest insider report is a member of
the TML. For the nonce, let us assume, with some skepticism, that the
report is in fact true in extent and content, and go from there.

Knowing comparatively little about the rules system base that the rev 2
Twilight rules use, I'll refrain from making specific comments about 
the company's decision to force us all to learn Yet Another System. I 
will also refrain from making value judgements as to which system will
be "more realistic," "more playable," or (pfagh!) "better." I merely 
wish to comment on the more global aspects of what this change will mean
to us as Traveller players.

First off: Marketing. GDW, unless they have finally learned something 
from West End and FASA, are going to finally succeed in blowing their
own brains out on this one. Traveller did great for ten years on a 
basic rules system that STILL works better than all the revisions, in
a lot of areas. MegaTraveller has been out for less than half that time,
and has been a colossal flop in terms of sales and generated interest.
It changed too much, and did so in an unappealing package with limited 
and skewed scope (we have an entire book on airplanes-- AIRPLANES?!--
and we still don't know squat about Dulinor?). The result was a rules 
system that generated very little loyalty. Bad move. GDW had better
be ready to accept the fact that yet another revision is going to piss
off a lot of people in a big way, and that's REGARDLESS of how good it is.
And if they go it alone, without DGP's continuity and gaming aplomb to
back them up, they're in double trouble. Dark Conspiracy is too little
too late on the creepycrawly trend, Space:1889 was a criminal case of
misguessing the public's tastes, and Twilight/Merc/2300 seem to be 
keeping the company afloat on merits I personally can't see at all. If 
they go out on a limb with this new Traveller rev, they'd better go all
the way-- real artwork, good maps and inserts, a proper typesetting job,
and all the elements that make a game buyer who buys from FASA or TSR
feel like he's getting (at least in layout) a quality product.

"But," I hear the munchkins in the front row bleat, "What about CONTENT?"

PISS on content!

Yeah! Piss on content. Content doesn't sell games-- packaging does. We can
be as altruistic as we want to be, but we are NOT going to keep a company the
size of GDW in business in today's market. A game like Traveller Classic,
as phenomenally successful as it was in 1977, would put GDW into Chapter 11
in no time nowadays. We don't need to impress the seasoned gamers and pros
out there-- they HAVE their systems, and like them. We need to prise open
the sweaty little stubby fists of the whining pimply preteens as they wander
through the game stores looking for newer and better misogyny to hide their
lack of social skills and pull out the crumpled wads of scrimped paper-route
cash and gifts from Mommy and Daddy before it can get spent on Shardowrun,
or Torg, or Cyberpunk, or GURPS, or whatever. Flashy artwork. Bloodshed.
Bigger guns and brighter fireworks. Flashier vehicles and slicker machismo.
And above all, SEX. SEX SEX SEX! Women, reduced to meat on the hoof for
the prurient edification of slimeballs of all ages who'd never dream of
trying to kiss a *real* girl themselves. Tighter costumes! Narrower waists!
And BREASTS. Human women with breasts the size of canteloupes! Aslan women
with breasts the size of honeydew melons! Vargr women with breasts the size
of nectarines! ("Nectarines?" "Yeah, but there are SIX of them, man!") More
makeup, more skin, body tattoos, the works-- if MegaTraveller's Player 
Handbook had had a cover with a bim like the one on the original 2300 rules,
they'd have done a lot better in the sales department. SELL MORE GAMES!

That having been said, and the basic problem of keeping the company alive
having been addressed, let me now turn to minutiae that won't make any 
difference in the long run to anyone except people like us, people with
slightly DIFFERENT fetishes. Hey, kid! Yeah, you in the front row! Get
yer hand outa yer pants and stop thinking about the honeydew melons for
a second! Remember what you were yelling about a minute ago? Huh?

"Oh, yeah. CONTENT."

These are the areas which will matter most in the long run, but unfortunately
games are published for the short run. It's doubtful that we can do anything
about the marketing and packaging end of things, so we may as well focus on 
the things we CAN change, and hope that we can make Chuck Gannon, and GDW, 
listen. Any author who thinks he can publish a rules system in a vacuum, with
no input from outside critics, is living in a dreamworld. On the other hand,
as TDR will gleefully demonstrate, if critics with opposing viewpoints lock
horns with no way to break the deadlock, nothing gets done, good or bad. 
The middle ground is for an author or team of authors to have a clear and 
persistent vision of the world they are trying to bring to life, combined
with a willingness to sweat the small details out with the help of the best
possible critics and playtesters, changing ruthlessly whatever needs to be 
changed to improve the game, and rejecting ruthlessly any attempts to sway
him from his vision.

Well, folks, if Chuck Gannon's the author, can YOU think of a good test group?
*I* sure can.

Let's face it. MegaTraveller was BROKEN. Broken broken broken. We did our
damnedest to fix it, and nobody listened. Now we have a real opportunity 
to fix the broken parts before Traveller becomes even more of a public
laughing stock than it is already! Next August isn't a long time to write
a game, but a good testing process can and MUST be included in that time.
The MegaTraveller rules were obviously NOT playtested properly, proofread
and doublechecked carefully, or assembled with any eye to real game-universe
continuity. And the rules that followed were often worse. I call upon the
experts in this group, whose combined knowledge of science, military 
matters, economics, sociology and history outweighs that of any single man
out there, to volunteer their aid in the testing and revision of these new
rules. And I call upon the people at GDW to get their heads out of their 
asses and stop relying on inbred apologists to test their games. Nobody,
not even Marc Miller or Joe Fugate, can claim to love Traveller MORE than
I do. And I'm willing to do my part to assure that the new game that comes
out next GenCon is the best it can possibly be.

How about it?

metlay				| The good news is that he desires nothing 
xpander-loving old curmudgeon   | more for his music 'rep' than a cameo in
                                | SAVAGE HENRY COMICS. 
metlay@organ.music.cs.cmu.edu	| The bad news is, he's likely to make it.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2886
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 11:04:07 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: One example of an elephant gun

The elephant gun was generally a rifle with a very, VERY large calibre,
throwing a heavy bullet at high velocity. It kicked like a mule, and
you didn't often need a second shot. One example was popularized in the
opening chapters of "The Man of Bronze," the first chapter of the Doc
Savage series of pulp adventures in the 1930s. It was the .577 Nitro
Express rifle, a round from which was fired from the top of a skyscraper,
flew across twenty city blocks, through an armored glass window and into
a bank vault door before stopping. 

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2887
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 08:33:17 PDT
Subject: Guns are they!

 
Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:
>Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il> writes:
>>
>> Firstly, the 92F is parallel to Imperial a 10mm SNUB (well, more or less).
>
>If so, the Snub pistol has changed drastically since I (or my character,
>at least) used it in Olde Traveller.  It got the name "snub" by having
>a very short barrel, was very low velocity, and fired several different
>types of ammo, mostly illegal on most planets by being either explosive
>or gas.  It was also low recoil, which made it great for shipboard
>security (where you didn't have to worry about minor details like local
>laws).  The Beretta 92F is an example of what Striker calls a "9mm
>auto pistol".  :-)
 
  I meant the 10mm SNUB is Berettas equivalent as far as ubiquitousness
goes.
 
>> Now - in Traveller we only have "10mm Auto." What about a "Intellarms
>> S-56 10mm Auto with gyrostabilizer?" Or a "BendArCo 23dm double magazine
>> 10mm?" Or "Causative XMH-242 8mm, gyrostab, integral bipod, laser
>> rangefinder and designator?"
>
>A bipod on a pistol?  Novel idea, but I don't know if it would sell.  :-)
 
  The XMH-242 is an assault weapon a-la Minimi.
 
 
  I prefer a feature list to Adrian's code system. Of course, some pieces
of equipment need additional (GM only) information (i.e. jamming mods) but
these may be hooked in somehow. Thus, the 2300AD has a very good hardware
stuff, including strangeness. The system DOES increase GM and player load.
 
Marc
 

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Dec 16 14:01:35 1991
Received: from relay.tek.com by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA05572) Mon, 16 Dec 91 13:59:00 EST
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA23571@relay.tek.com>; Mon, 16 Dec 91 10:36:19 -0800
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA19733; Mon, 16 Dec 91 10:39:23 PST
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA21466; Mon, 16 Dec 91 10:35:57 PST
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA04254; Mon, 16 Dec 91 10:35:46 PST
Message-Id: <9112161835.AA04254@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin)
Subject: TML Bundle #237: Msgs 2888-2906
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 91 10:35:43 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon Dec 16 10:35:33 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #237: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2888  23-Sep-91 Bill Wilson       FTP site << I've moved a number of materials 
2889  23-Sep-91 Dan Corrin        Abbreviations? Why not use the extra keystrok
2890  24-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2884) Traveller revision << > I agree wi
2891  23-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic T2K, Traveller, etc << I have a passing acqua
2892  24-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2885) Traveller Mk III: An Editorial by,
2893  23-Sep-91 George William He Revision/Mk.III/whatever... << I just sent th
2894  24-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2889) Abbreviations? Why not use the ext
2895  24-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha More Machinetools << Machinetools 2b Featured
2896  24-Sep-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Traveller revision << Alan Huscroft <ASSH
2897  24-Sep-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Guns are they! << Marc Alexandrovich Volo
2898  24-Sep-91 Bill Wilson       FTP site revisited... << I couldn't type when
2899  24-Sep-91 Nicholas Sylvain  NewTraveller << Lately I have been very busy 
2900  24-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Latest Travails << SPACE COMBAT I had the opp
2901  24-Sep-91 Richard Johnson   Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller << In last 
2902  25-Sep-91 MacGyver          Reponses on the Revision << My gosh, a few da
2903  25-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller << > From: 
2904  25-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Latest Travails << > From: "Robert S. Dea
2905  25-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha 2Re: Traveller Mk III: An Editorial... << > F
2906  25-Sep-91 ihlpf!zonker@ATT. Traveller Revisions << What I have from the h

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2888
From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1991 09:58:08 MST
Subject: FTP site

I've moved a number of materials to an alternate FTP site.  FTP to
akbar.ucc.nau.edu and login under the name anonymous.  I am housing
the sector data and a number of utilities.


- -- 
Let sleeping dragons lie........                    | The RoleMancer 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
William Wilson (wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu | wilson@nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ  Flagstaff, AZ 86011

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2889
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 14:43:07 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Abbreviations? Why not use the extra keystrokes.


Excuse my ignorance, but it Mac's letter he wrote:

> [...]
> connected to it unlike the last time. DGP is probably devoting
> its entire resource to A.I. anyhow.

What exactly is A.I. (Besides Artificial Intelligence?)?

				-Dan

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2890
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2884) Traveller revision
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 1:19:06 EDT

> I agree with Ameer -- the game mechanics need revision and proofreading,
> but Leave Our Universe Alone!  The setting for the game is the single
> most important factor in making it so popular for so long.  I think it
> would be insane to make such drastic changes.  For my part, I'm still
> having trouble getting used to the Rebellion.

	To be honest, I don't like the Rebellion to begin with. 

> I find all this stuff about a computer virus causing widespread havoc
> across the Imperium to be higly dubious at best.  Even if a mechanism
> for carrying it from world to world could be contrived, it's hard to
> believe that the computer technology on the myriad different worlds
> would be sufficiently compatible to allow it to thrive.

	Well, I'm sure GDW will come up with a good explaination.
For the most part, GDW has been pretty good on this kind of stuff.
While I may not like Rebellion, it's at least believable. The new
universe is going to be introdcued at next years GenCon.

> What is the HIWG's view about this upheaval, I wonder?  Or DGP's?

	To be honest, I have no idea. I don't even know if they know
of this yet. I've stopped monitoring the Traveller board on GEnie.
But I doubt this was posted. All this information came from my talk 
with Lester Smith, one of the GDW in house staff designer. For those 
of you that don't know who he is, he did "Deathwatch Program" for 
2300 AD and Dark Conspiracy.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2891
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 22:27:02 PDT
Subject: T2K, Traveller, etc

 
I have a passing acquaintance with T2000 1st edition. I have also read
the Challenge article describing fixes in T2000 2nd edition.
 
All this lends a new and urgent emphasis to TDR.
 
Come on people. Lets work and save our own sweet gluteae maximae.
 
Marc A. Volovic
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2892
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2885) Traveller Mk III: An Editorial by, well, YOU know.
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 1:36:50 EDT

> I would very much like to determine whether or not this is a hoax, a
> cruel joke, or-- Lord help me-- the truth. Especially since any TMLer
> who bothers to read .signature files will have noted by now that the
> Chuck Gannon mentioned in Mac's latest insider report is a member of
> the TML. For the nonce, let us assume, with some skepticism, that the
> report is in fact true in extent and content, and go from there.

	As I have stated in the posting replying to Alan. The
information came from talking with Lester Smith. Since he does work
for GDW, and I'm in no mood to make up something like this, (Frankly,
I can't even if I wanted to.) I personally think it's the truth,
otherwise I wouldn't have bothered posting it to TML. Especially
since Lester Smith hasn't passed any information that turned out 
to be false to date.

>>>>> deleted
> they go out on a limb with this new Traveller rev, they'd better go all
> the way-- real artwork, good maps and inserts, a proper typesetting job,
> and all the elements that make a game buyer who buys from FASA or TSR
> feel like he's getting (at least in layout) a quality product.

	I think the current GDW is quite a bit better about maps, artwork,
typesetting, and all that stuff in my opinion. Dark Conspiracy in my
opinion, is the most flashy product GDW has ever produced that I've
seen. The maps and arts are just wonderful. And let me tell ya, before
I saw DarkCon, I was very skeptical myself.

	And to set the record straight, the revision is due out 
around Xmas time I believe. GenCon release date is for Star Viking.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2893
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 22:52:55 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Revision/Mk.III/whatever...


	I just sent the GDW people a bunch of more-or-less solicited
manuscripts and a request for info about that revision, if it's for real.
I'll let the list know in about a week when Michelle Sturgeon ought to
be back to me by.  I hope 8-), presuming she likes the April Fools scenario...

	IMHO... it was ten years from Traveller to MegaTraveller.  This I
do not see as having been good; as the old system was very creaky at the joints
in places.  By the end of 92, it will have been five years since MegaTraveller
hit the market.  Again, as we all know, it's creaky at the joints and is
having some problems.  Having worked with the T:2000 2nd ed. rules, I think
that they have a better place to start than MT does, though it needs some
polishing.

- -george
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2894
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2889) Abbreviations? Why not use the extra keystrokes.
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 2:31:07 EDT

> What exactly is A.I. (Besides Artificial Intelligence?)?

	A.I. is DGP's new game. It's also due out next August at GenCon.
The concept is that in a far away future, computer has become so 
advance that human relies on them to do everything. Some of the human have
direct link with the computer, thus can order the computer to do
things like produce illusion etc, which seems like magic to normal
people that doesn't understand what's going on. It's not that I'm lazy,
but the title of the game is called A.I. :)



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2895
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: More Machinetools
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 9:46:15 MET DST

   Machinetools 2b

   Featured Weapons: 5mm Body Pistol
                     7mm Automatic Pistol
                     9mm Automatic Pistol
                     9mm Caseless Automatic Pistol
                        [Interstellarms M911s1ID and M911s2ID series smartgun
                         versions of 9mm Caseless Automatic Pistol.]

Body Pistol 5mm

   The Bodypistol is designed to be especially hard to detect in security 
searches. It is done mostly in advanced materials which makes it more 
expensive than usual. Silencers are available at law level zero weighing 150g 
and costing Cr125. There are no problems with compatibility between different 
techlevels of ammunition for this gun. The ammunition used is called 5x10mmI 
and it is sold in cases of 2000 rounds, (Lead: 1liter 5kg Cr230) (AP: 1liter 
4kg Cr460) (APDS: 1liter 2kg Cr1380)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Gun   6   0/2  3  Med  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.10 0.26 501  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip  6                                           0.00 12
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.01 0.7
   AP    6   1/1  2                                  0.01 1.4

9  Gun   6   0/2  3  Med  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.10 0.24 510  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip  6                                           0.00 12
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.01 0.7
   AP    6   1/1  2                                  0.01 1.4
   APDS  6   2/2  2                                  0.01 4.2


Automatic Pistol 7mm

   There are no compatibility issues with the ammunition to this weapon. It 
uses 7x12mmI ammunition which is sold in cases of 1000 rounds, (Lead: 1liter 8
kg Cr117) (AP: 1liter 6kg Cr234) (DS: 1liter 4kg Cr351)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
6  Gun  15   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.48 271  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.02 11
   Lead 15                                           0.08 1.8

7  Gun  15   1/2  3  Med  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.46 281  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.02 11
   Lead 15                                           0.08 1.8

9  Gun  15   1/2  3  Med  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.43 293  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.02 11
   Lead 15                                           0.08 1.8
   DS   15   2/2  3                                  0.03 5.4
   APDS 15   3/2  3                                  0.03 11


Automatic Pistol 9mm

   Using higher techlevel ammunition in a lower techlevel weapon of this type 
will not increase the risk of malfunction. The ammunition is the 9x17mmI, it 
is sold in cases of 1000 rounds, (Lead: 2.7liters 15kg Cr140) (AP: 2.7liters 
11kg Cr293) (DS: 2.7liters 7kg Cr460) (APDS: 2.7liters 7kg Cr920).

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
5  Gun  15   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 1.01 324  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.04 12
   Lead 15   1/2  3                                  0.18 2.1

6  Gun  15   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 1.00 361  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.04 14
   Lead 15   1/2  3                                  0.18 2.2
   AP   15   2/2  3                                  0.13 4.4

7  Gun  15   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.96 385  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.04 15
   Lead 15   1/2  3                                  0.18 2.2
   AP   15   2/2  3                                  0.13 4.4

9  Gun  15   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.91 411  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.04 16
   Lead 15   1/2  3                                  0.18 2.3
   AP   15   2/2  3                                  0.12 4.6
   DS   15   3/2  3                                  0.07 6.9
   APDS 15   5/2  3                                  0.07 14


Automatic Pistol 9mm Caseless

   I have assumed that due to recoil purposes, a loaded weight of 1kg is 
minimum for a 9mm automatic pistol. Therefore the TL13-16 pistols have extra 
weights in them, 50g at TL13, 140g at TL14, 240g at TL15 and 350g at TL16 
which can be replaced by laser point sights, smartgun options, gyros and so on.
   The weapon has no ammunition compatibility problems. The 9x17mmICls comes 
in cases of 1000 rounds, (Lead: 2.7liters 13kg Cr297) (AP: 2.7liters 9kg Cr594)
 (DS: 2.7liters 4kg Cr891) (APDS: 2.7liters 4kg Cr1782).
   Typical smartgun statistics as offered by Interstellarms in the M911s1ID to 
M911s1IG models (smartgun versions of the basic M911I line) are: TL13 +2 
+Cr108, TL14 +3 +Cr324, TL15 +3 +Cr324, TL16 +4 +Cr972. This particular 
smartgun sensor works with passive IR, so it is rendered ineffective by the 
various forms of IR supression in armors. The slightly more advanced M911s2ID 
to M911s2IG models are capable of combining movement, visual clues and IR to 
fire at moving items and lifeforms. They have the following characteristics: 
TL13 +1 +Cr108, TL14 +2 +Cr324, TL15 +3 +Cr972, TL16 +3 +Cr972.

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Gun  30   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.81 358  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                           0.07 20
   Lead 30   1/2  3                                  0.33 8.9
   AP   30   2/2  3                                  0.21 18

9  Gun  30   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.77 378  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                           0.07 21
   Lead 30   1/2  3                                  0.33 9.2
   AP   30   2/2  3                                  0.21 18
   DS   30   3/2  3                                  0.10 27
   APDS 30   4/2  3                                  0.10 55

10 Gun  30  1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.71 400  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 22
   Lead 30  1/2  3                                  0.33 9.4
   AP   30  2/2  3                                  0.21 19
   DS   30  3/2  3                                  0.10 28
   APDS 30  4/2  3                                  0.10 56

12 Gun  30  1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.64 423  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 23
   Lead 30  1/2  3                                  0.33 9.7
   AP   30  2/2  3                                  0.21 19
   DS   30  3/2  3                                  0.10 29
   APDS 30  5/2  3                                  0.10 58

13 Gun  30  1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.60 446  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 24
   Lead 30  1/2  3                                  0.33 10
   AP   30  2/2  3                                  0.21 20
   DS   30  3/2  3                                  0.10 30
   APDS 30  5/2  3                                  0.10 60

14 Gun  30  1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.60 471  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 26
   Lead 30  1/2  3                                  0.33 10
   AP   30  2/2  3                                  0.21 20
   DS   30  3/2  3                                  0.10 31
   APDS 30  5/2  3                                  0.10 61

15 Gun  30  2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.60 496  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 27
   Lead 30  2/2  3                                  0.33 10
   AP   30  3/2  3                                  0.21 21
   DS   30  4/2  3                                  0.10 32
   APDS 30  6/2  3                                  0.10 63

16 Gun  30  2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.60 522  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 27
   Lead 30  2/2  3                                  0.33 11
   AP   30  3/2  3                                  0.21 22
   DS   30  4/2  3                                  0.10 32
   APDS 30  6/2  3                                  0.10 65

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Don't you hate it when you are sitting in a free trader under 90 meters of 
 water, with the jumpdrive disassembled, one turret blown clean off, the hold
 under water, the bridge flooding fast and there is a corsair circling above
 dropping depthcharges at you?"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2896
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller revision
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 10:09:15 BST

Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk> writes:
>  
> I find all this stuff about a computer virus causing widespread havoc
> across the Imperium to be higly dubious at best.  Even if a mechanism
> for carrying it from world to world could be contrived, it's hard to
> believe that the computer technology on the myriad different worlds
> would be sufficiently compatible to allow it to thrive.

Someone has been taking Scott Kellogg's "Vulture" class craft seriously!
As I recall, he wrote that one such craft was taken over by the computer
of the Kinunir, which has been using various forms of virus to quietly
steal bits and pieces for itself.  Of course, even the Kinunir can't
write a bug-free virus.

(Realises the horrible pun, ducks for cover.  :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2897
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Guns are they!
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 10:22:12 BST

Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il> writes:
> >> Now - in Traveller we only have "10mm Auto." What about a "Intellarms
> >> S-56 10mm Auto with gyrostabilizer?" Or a "BendArCo 23dm double magazine
> >> 10mm?" Or "Causative XMH-242 8mm, gyrostab, integral bipod, laser
> >> rangefinder and designator?"
> >
> >A bipod on a pistol?  Novel idea, but I don't know if it would sell.  :-)
>  
>   The XMH-242 is an assault weapon a-la Minimi.

I suspected something of the sort, hence the smiley.  First we were discussing
pistols; then, without warning, you included a larger weapon which would be
recognised as such only by people who know the code numbers of every weapon
in existence, including prototypes (I assume the "X" there indicates that this
gun is an experimental or prototype version).

>   I prefer a feature list to Adrian's code system.

To convert my code system to a feature list, simply delete the code number
column.  The reason for the code numbers was for the benefit of GM's whose
PCs' first action upon visiting a planet is to find the weapons shops.
Rather than say "Yes, this shop sells 9mm auto pistols", I'd say "Yes, we
sell auto pistols.  Wait a moment, I'll show you a selection."  I'd then
roll 1D6 for number of types available, then determine the code number
of each type at random.  If I felt up to it at the time, I'd add some of
the additional features as well.  It was a quick'n'dirty way of getting
some variety into the arms market.

>						     Of course, some pieces
> of equipment need additional (GM only) information (i.e. jamming mods) but
> these may be hooked in somehow.

Well, jamming mods might be known to the PC's.  Not the exact modifier, of
course, but someone might know that this particular gun has a habit of
blowing its slide off every so often, or that gun is used by the local
security forces because of its legendary ability to be dropped in a muddy
pool, thrown at a brick wall, placed in a fridge, and still be able to
fire accurately.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2898
From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1991 08:05:53 MST
Subject: FTP site revisited...

I couldn't type when I sent in my last message.  The ftp site address is:

   akbar.cse.nau.edu
         ^^^

Note the change...


- -- 
Let sleeping dragons lie........                    | The RoleMancer 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
William Wilson (wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu | wilson@nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ  Flagstaff, AZ 86011

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2899
Date:         Tue, 24 Sep 91 13:02:55 EDT
From: Nicholas Sylvain <NPSYLV%WMVM1.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      NewTraveller

Lately I have been very busy (as RJ and Mike Metlay can attest to), but
I feel compelled to drop off this short note in reaction to last night's
commentary by Mike Metlay regarding the state of Traveller and certain
"improvements" looming upon the horizon.

DISCLAIMER: These are my opinions ONLY and if anyone else happens to agree
            with me then whoopee. I am solely responsible for the language
            which may pop up from time to time. If you are easily offended,
            read at your own risk.

In short: Mike, AMEN BROTHER!

Does anyone else get the feeling of deja vu? It reminds me of all that furor
not too long ago when some boneheads at Coca-Cola decided that what the public
needed was "NewCoke" and that they will like it because, hey, they'll buy
anything. The wisdom of foisting a product on an unresponsive consumer
market should have been fairly obvious.

I think that GDW is fooling itself if it believes that Traveller fans will
go for ANOTHER major revision so soon after it labored to produce a presumably
well intentioned but utimately botched mutant. Its painfully obvious flaws
are well known. Look at how it was received by the most die-hard, ardent
fans of Traveller. As Mike noted, the applause was somewhat underwhelming.
Can you imagine how absolute neophytes would feel upon investigating MT
and being brought up short by its glaring faults? They'll vote with their
wallets. Trying to slap on a gold band-aid won't help.

A couple of years ago I decided to get back into gaming -- the obvious
question was with what system? I had neither the time nor the inclination
(nor the money) to keep abreast of more than one system. I chose to go
back to Traveller because I had always liked the way GDW had handled
the Traveller "universe" and felt that I had always gotten my money's
worth from their products. (And I found munchkinism less prevalent among
my Traveller cohorts, but that's another story.)

As they saying goes, what has GDW done for me lately? Produced a half-assed
abortion like MegaTraveller and some notable disasters: I thank the Lord I
listened to TMLers and didn't buy Fighting Sh*ts, and hang my head in shame
for buying COACC. Must have been temporary insanity. Not exactly a way to
build confidence in any further undertakings.

My gut reaction to NewTraveller is "OH NO, NOT AGAIN!"

Will I buy Star Viking, or whatever silly name GDW pastes on it?

NOT BLOODY LIKELY

Why don't the grand poo-bahs at GDW just invest some money in a rubber
stamp and emboss all of their future releases with the legend: OUR LATEST
ATTEMPT TO MAKE PEOPLE FORGET OUR PREVIOUS FAILURES -- PLEASE BUY THIS, WE
PROMISE WE'VE DONE IT RIGHT THIS TIME.

It's like a contractor who builds a small, quality house that everybody
likes and enjoys, but then tears it down and replaces it with a ramshackle
poorly designed monstrosity (but it's better, really!) and keeps on trying
to dress it up by building more upon it. It won't work; if the foundation
is rotten there's little sense in building upon it unless you want the whole
rickety house of cards to come a 'tumblin down.

Has GDW had an unlucky love affair and is now trying to commit suicide?

I heartily agree with Mike's editorial. If it isn't fixed NOW, then it
will be too late for damage control. In my own limited way, I am willing
to exert some effort to save Traveller. Otherwise, I suspect that I will
not be the only one who simply tunes out from GDW's Traveller.

Please help stop GDW before it kills again! :->

- ---

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
 the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
                   -- United States Constitution, Amendment 2

Nicholas Sylvain (npsylv@wmvm1.cc.wm.edu)
Marshall-Wythe School of Law
College of William and Mary

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2900
Date:     Tue, 24 Sep 91 16:38:05 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Latest Travails

SPACE COMBAT

     I had the opportunity (misfortune?) of having space combat in my weekly
Traveller game last Monday night.  I was going to sit down immediately after
the game and write a lengthy diatribe on the flaws in that system, but sense
prevailed.  I woke up the next morning and realized that I had done my 
modifiers backwards, and that the enemy ship with armor-52 (-4 die modifier)
was not, in fact, nearly invincible.  However, the question of discontinuity
between the space and vehicle combat systems remained.  The problem that I
was experiencing was that two small ships (1 200 tons, the other 400 tons)
could not do any damage to each other except Fuel-1, Weapons-1, and, I
think, Maneuver-1 (I'm not sure about that because of the modifier screw
up).  Using the vehicle combat system, we quickly see that a 250 MW laser
has a pretty useful penetration versus an armor-40 hull, and that the
250 damage points done in a typical 'low penetration' hit will pretty well
trash any part of the ship that has separate damage points.  As I described
the combat, our heroes fired numerous missiles at the enemy until all turrets
were knocked out, and then closed to visual range to deliver the coup de grace
to the enemy with their single laser...regrettably the enemy vessel had 
repaired one laser in a triple turret and fired one shot which nearly destroyed
the player's ship's power plant.  I'm satisfied with that result, but not
with the method used to generate it.  (I know, I have a copy of Bertil's
system, but I haven't read it enough to use it yet...).  I found that in the
heat of the game that it was not worthwhile to worry about sensor rolls, and
that the -1 per hex sensor penalty seems too severe given that weapons are
supposed to have a 500,000km range. We also used a Mayday set for combat
resolution, which took a few minutes to explain about vectors...but not so
many minutes that it seemed prohibitive.

THE AFTERMATH

     Now they have a slight problem...the privateers were able to jump, and
their base was only one jump away.  Our heroes would have been cooked had they
not been carrying two 1kl portable fusion plants which they jury-rigged for
some power to the thruster plates.  With maneuver power (of sorts) they
docked with one of the demolished enemy fighters, which fortunately had not
taken a power plant critical hit, and salvaged its power plant.  However, they
managed to ram it in the docking process, and I ruled that their hull was in
such need of repair that they were not capable of a gas giant refueling. I 
also ruled that jumping was out because of massive damage to the jump grids.

     From a gas giant to a main world is usually a considerable distance (I
had often ignored this, but you shouldn't).  By the time they were patched up
and in transit, two new privateers <?> had jumped into the system.  Now they
have landed on the planet (Pagaton, TL4, in an ice age) in a spot that you
could consider to be equivalent to southern Greenland (in the equivalent of
the 1850s--a steam press to bend the hull members back into shape might be
available, but not in 'Greenland').  The enemy is expected to orbit in 24-48
hours.  Should they be easy to find with a densitometer?  Obviously if their
fusion plant is running, they'll show up like a bonfire on the neutrino
sensors.  If they elect to abandon their ship, how often should a free trader
call on this world?  Would a world with refueling (water) available only a
jump-1 from a class A starport be unfrequented?  This all gets back into the
"How many ships in the Imperium?" discussion. Is there a "Distressed Spacemen"
law that says that a free trader has to pick them up?  Just how many TL13
novelty type 'relics' would their be?

     I realize that all of these questions are "Add salt to taste", but I'm 
curious.  Also, does anyone think it would be fair to impose corrosion problems
on the fuel purifying system for working with saturated (21% by weight) sodium
chloride brine as a feedstock?  (Maybe that's why people _buy_ unrefined fuel
rather than ocean dipping...)

     Anyway...I'm still here, although I've been pretty quiet the last few 
weeks.  The final two Horde installments should be along soon.

Good Gaming,

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2901
Subject: Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 19:46:26 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

In last night's TML, Mike Metlay asks "What is A.I...?"

According to Joe Fugate, very UNofficially, last October, in Boise,
was asking a bunch of us what we thought about a "different kind of
fantasy/sci-fi rpg."  One where (I truly hope I don't step on any
toes here, and also that I get it right.) for some strange reason,
(something like Vinge's singularity, I think) a portion of humanity
has sort of "outgrown" bodies and planetary constrictions by 
downloading their personalities into AI constructs (hence the name).
There is also another class of PC, (mundanes, if you will) who 
chose not to make the change, and are semi-barbaric, using a 
priestly class, truly intelligent (magick?) devices etc.  Both sides
of the coin are playable.

(disclaimer:  I have *NO* idea what DGP is really up to now, nor
do I know how Joe's plans have changed in the last year.)


Last night, Mike also bemoaned GDW trying to (again) resurrect
Star Viking.  Joe sort of warned us about that, too, although 
I don't remember it well.  It was very late at night, and...

I think we should step back a little and discuss models and values.
The RPG is a moderated virtual reality.  Traditionally we have
built this virtual reality strictly within the minds of our 
players, using abstract rules systems.  Computer games, to date,
have not followed this approach, but rather gone after single-
player, limited-interaction, scripted scenarios.

I assert that GDW (and TSR and FASA and Steve Jackson) only
pursue nostalgia when ther introduce Yet Another RPG based 
on a simple abstract rules system.  Hence, using Twilight
2000 rules as a "house" system will eventually spell their
doom.   UNLESS (and here is where TDR and CAT were on the 
right track) the game houses (or someone) manages to begin
to properly meld 21st-century habits and technology with the
entertainment world, and start building (granted, primitive)
virtual reality enhancements to RPG's.

I reckon that means I agree completely with Mike.  TML is 
IMO the *BEST* place to thoroughly play test and user-test
whatever it is they come up with...if they'll listen.  After
all, we're the ones who are so addicted to this stuff we 
take it to work with us...
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2902
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Reponses on the Revision
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 1:03:03 EDT

My gosh, a few days ago when I posted the info. I had no idea I was 
going to get this much reaction. (grin)

Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | grounded for a week!
=====================================| 			- Gloria
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2903
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 10:53:01 MET DST

> From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>
> Subject: (2901) Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller
> 
> I assert that GDW (and TSR and FASA and Steve Jackson) only
> pursue nostalgia when ther introduce Yet Another RPG based 
> on a simple abstract rules system.  Hence, using Twilight
> 2000 rules as a "house" system will eventually spell their
> doom.   UNLESS (and here is where TDR and CAT were on the 
> right track) the game houses (or someone) manages to begin
> to properly meld 21st-century habits and technology with the
> entertainment world, and start building (granted, primitive)
> virtual reality enhancements to RPG's.

  I suspect that you are referring to a multimedia approach, ie 'MegaTraveller
the RPG, MegaTraveller the Computergame, MegaTraveller the Movie, 
MegaTraveller the Online-MUD, MegaTraveller the Boardgame, MegaTraveller the
Novel and so on?

  I agree in that, for example, Novels and computer games generate interest in
a game system and leads the 'newbies' to that system if they have a positive
initial contact. A negative initial contact, on the other hand, will be very
damaging to the system, so quality in this is extremely important.

  When it comes to the MUD type of virtual reality enhancements I see their 
purpose as creating interest, because they cannot, at present, emulate the 
flexibility of a human referee. Computer games like MegaTraveller II and Pool 
of Radiance and all that are very far from MegaT and AD&D, but they don't claim
to be anything they are not. A TravellerMud would be a different beast from 
both real Traveller and a computer game version, and it would be non-smart of 
it to claim that it was *real* Traveller.
  Any advanced powerglove/glasses scheme must build upon existing technology, 
since the development costs to do it from scratch probably will be large.
  
  The other ways a system could use electronic resources are PBEM/FRP and
communications and I'm not sure that a PBEM/FRP could be run on a commercial
basis. If the workload the referee handles was handled by a salaried operator,
the per turn cost would be rather prohibitive. (Interpret this as: "You're
doing a great job, Richard!" :)

  Communications on the other hand, is very useful, and many companies have 
already started their BBS-es and areas on commercial services. In some companies
this seem to be something that the design crew and managers (if those groups
are different people, the company is too large:) do if they are interested on
their spare time and in others this has been formalized as a part of the 
normal operation of the company. Steve Jackson Games seems to be an example on 
the latter, and I think this is the way to go.

> Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
> Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
'Det a"r oo"versa"ttbart...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2904
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Latest Travails
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 11:54:35 MET DST

> From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
> Subject: (2900)  Latest Travails
> 
> SPACE COMBAT
> 
> I found that in the
> heat of the game that it was not worthwhile to worry about sensor rolls, and
> that the -1 per hex sensor penalty seems too severe given that weapons are
> supposed to have a 500,000km range.

  I'll look at that. Judging from the data on what sensors can see on different
ranges, the sensor combat ranges are a little low. Since Mayday uses twice as
large hexes, the sensor ranges could be doubled with the nice side effect that
Maydays movement rules can be used without modification.

> THE AFTERMATH
> 
> Now they
> have landed on the planet (Pagaton, TL4, in an ice age) in a spot that you
> could consider to be equivalent to southern Greenland (in the equivalent of
> the 1850s--a steam press to bend the hull members back into shape might be
> available, but not in 'Greenland'). The enemy is expected to orbit in 24-48
> hours.  Should they be easy to find with a densitometer?

  Since densitometers have a rather bad resolution on long ranges, the only way
someone could detect them distinctly from orbit is if they have any internal
gravitics running. The ship is made of superdense (I assume) combined with
metals of all types and solids and some liquids, and a lot of gasses. If the
resolution is bad enough, the detecting densitometer will just see the average
density in each 'pixel'. Since the density of most civilian ships is about that
of water or ice southern Greenland is a very good place to hide. If the
density of the ship *isn't* correct, it can easily be adjusted by loading on
random rocks and other junk.
  If this has been done, the plant has been shut down, the ship camouflaged
in the visual and IR areas and it is observing radio silence, the only way of
the privateers to find them is to do a densitometer scan at a so short range 
that the densitometer will be able to discern different parts of the ship, and
so detect the superdense hull.

  It will be slightly more undetectable it they put it on the bottom of some
random lake or sea and cover it with silt.

  (As seen in the quote in my sig on the end of the latest machinetools, I
had a very similar situation in my campaign last sunday:)

> If they elect to abandon their ship, how often should a free trader
> call on this world?  Would a world with refueling (water) available only a
> jump-1 from a class A starport be unfrequented?

  I seem to remember reading something about that the IISS prohibits 
introduction of TL6+ items on TL5- worlds. If this is so it would put a wooden
slipper in the mercantile machinery and seriously limit any interest off-
worlders might have in legal interaction with the world. Illegal interaction
is of course always possible but I would advice against hitching a ride 
with a gunrunner.

> Rob Dean
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
'Det a"r oo"versa"ttbart...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2905
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: 2Re: Traveller Mk III: An Editorial...
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 12:18:27 MET DST

> From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
> Subject: (2892) Re: (2885) Traveller Mk III: An Editorial by, well, YOU know.
> 
> 	I think the current GDW is quite a bit better about maps, artwork,
> typesetting, and all that stuff in my opinion. Dark Conspiracy in my
> opinion, is the most flashy product GDW has ever produced that I've
> seen. The maps and arts are just wonderful. And let me tell ya, before
> I saw DarkCon, I was very skeptical myself.
 
  You are absolutely correct about flashiness and good layout and all that -
But it still has the same general type of problems that we've seen in the 
MegaTraveller books, ie the referrences to some piece of data found in another
chapter that *simply isn't there*!

  Three examples that comes to mind right now is that the equipment listing 
mentions that contacts work into the availability codes and that exact how this
works is supposed to be found in the section on contacts. Not so.
  I've also not been able to find any explanation of the availability codes
in 'Dark'.
  And in the character generation chapter there is a mention that some weapons
need special licenses, and that data on how to get those is in the equipment
listing. Nope.

  All these examples are just more of what we've seen before. Bad coordination
between different parts of the design team leading to spurious references was
very evident in MegaTraveller. I suspect that the proofreading is done by 
people who *alreay know the system* and unconciously fill in the missing parts
because they know what it should be. The missing availability codes makes this
more likely because they are such a staple in the T2k system that anyone
familiar with it would know about them.

  Don't get me wrong: 'Dark' is still much better editing and typo-wise than
MegaT, but it still hasn't reached the goal.
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
["It's that feeling of yawning emptiness that comes over you as you are close to
  the edge of the TML charter." I hope I dodn't break it, James :)]

[SSLLLUUURRRPPP!!!!! GLOOMP!  Bertil vanishes into a black hole.  No
problem, Bertil -- James]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2906
From: ihlpf!zonker@ATT.ATT.COM
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 09:52 CDT
Subject: Traveller Revisions

    What I have from the horse's mouth (Wally the Wonder, that is): Star
Viking is supposed to be a totally new game.  Frank wants to do a game that
deals with looting on a planetary scale.  This requires limited space travel
and to make it fun a wide diversity of planets (i.e. everything from
barbarians hoarding chickens to fairly advanced systems).  The intro/set up
of which will allude to Traveller as its far past.  The RPG system will be
based on Twilight 2000-2 and the combat system will be a extension of
command decision.  As an aside command decision appears to be a real adaptable
system.  The CITW (including myself and Frank Chadwick) have been playing
Crimean War battles with it and it works.  Star Viking is supposed to be a
game mainly of looting planets so large scale combat will be the norm.
The original virus was supposed to be similar to the PC virus of the last
year or so, but I think I convinced him to do something a little more
elaborate.  I told him he should assume a technological breakthrough which
causes most computers to have a common component (my suggestion was
something organic).  The computer virus then attacks "life support"
processor actually causing the main processor to die of starvation or heat.
The net effect is that it appears to be a normal failure that causes
component replacement it's not until very late that they figure out it is a
virus attacking the life support system rather than a bug in design/manufacturing.
By then production is virtually at a standstill and massive component failure
is occuring.  At any rate you probably won't have to go to SV unless you
want to.
    Frank has also talked about redoing Traveller as the Twilight system.
He seems to understand the problems with doing this so soon after
MegaTraveller.  This is not a new idea and in fact Traveller 2300 was an
attempt to do this as well with t2000-1 (in amy opinion they didn't go far
enough with 2300 and in fact made it too Travellerish).  Personally I like
the Twilight system which is why I agreed to edit the Eternal Soldier
newsletter for GDW.  Will it work (as a system) for Traveller?  The answer
is yes (the system is extremly flexible).  Will it sell?  Who knows, but at
least you will have a proven/workable system to play with.  Will you buy
it?  Probably since many of you seem to require the background support that
the currently supported version provides.  Will there be production problems
.... hard to say, but these are related to the staff and as of right now
things seem to be in good shape.
    Space 1889 suffered from deployment problems caused by delays in the minitures 
for Sky Galleons which was a real horror story i.e. Sky Galleons was about
9 months late and was produced off of reworked miscasts of the masters (the
masters were really hot stuff from what I was told).  This caused what was
initially supposed to be a gradual introduction of products to become a flood.
What interests me the most is the raw nerve the game struck between the
extremes of the hobby the historic games have lashed out at it almost as a
corruption of history (as if what they did was the same thing under another
name) and the fanatasy RPG players have lashed out at it as being too
historical (as though the fact that you could do reasearch in a history book
made it any less fantastic).  Personally having gone gaga as a pre-teen on
H.G.Wells and E. R. Burroughs I like 1889.

 					Non Cuniculus Est,
					    Tom Harris

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Sep 30 00:44:10 1991
Received: from relay.tek.com by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA07206) Mon, 30 Sep 91 00:43:55 EDT
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA26799@relay.tek.com>; Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:00:43 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA13503; Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:03:58 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA23133; Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:00:21 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA11253; Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:00:15 PDT
Message-Id: <9109300400.AA11253@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #238: Msgs 2907-2921
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:00:13 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: RO


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Sep 29 21:00:10 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #238: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2907  25-Sep-91 Glenn Host        CONVENTION ANNOUNCEMENT - VA, USA << CONVENTI
2908  25-Sep-91 Hans Rancke-Madse The solution to a lot of Norris' headaches! <
2909  25-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  New Traveller )-8 << While this is not ordina
2910  25-Sep-91 chk@alias.COM     Re: NewTraveller << > Does anyone else get th
2911  25-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  [Greg Porter: Re: Compatible Gaming Systems] 
2912  25-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au More Zhodani Ships << Hi guys! Just a few mor
2913  25-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au What's with this computer virus story? << Hi,
2914  25-Sep-91 "Senioritis alrea Another voice joins the chorus << On March 30
2915  26-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2914) Another voice joins the chorus << 
2916  26-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2903) Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller 
2917  26-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2909) New Traveller )-8 << I think the w
2918  26-Sep-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << PRELUDE: I have recently started up a tra
2919  26-Sep-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << Subject: Revision Well, I might as well p
2920  26-Sep-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN On Hans's Aslan idea << Q: Would you rather h
2921  26-Sep-91 chaber@kentmarsh. Re: (2908) The solution to a lot of Norris' h

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2907
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 08:56:33 EDT
From: Glenn Host <ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: CONVENTION ANNOUNCEMENT - VA, USA

CONVENTION ANNOUNCEMENT

What:    NOVAG VI - Northern Virginia Adventure Gamers Gaming Convention
When:    October 26 & 27,  9-Midnight on Saturday, 9-6 PM on Sunday
Where:   Fairfax, VA (15 miles outside of Washington, DC)
         Elks Lodge #2188 at 8421 Arlington Blvd
         (One mile outside the Washington Beltway, Interstate 495)

This year there will be 6000 square foot of convention hall for
historical minatures, Board games and roleplaying.  Included are
Gaming Vendors and a Snack Bar.  This will be our largest convention
to date.

AD&D, GURPS, Warhammer, Cyberpunk, Traveller and numerious board,
strategy and  minatures sessions are scheduled with more games
scheduled weekly.
^L
General Admission:

    $5 one day
    $8 Weekend
    $10 Weekend with Membership (includes bi-monthly newsletter)
    Gaming sessions generally require no admission fees.

    Pre-payment also allows you to pre-register for two (2) gaming
    sessions.  Preregistration forms will be mailed out to all those
    interested.


Game Masters:

    More Game Masters are needed to run games at NOVAG.
    If you want to run a game at NOVAG please contact me (Glenn Host)
    or anyone at NOVAG as soon as possible.


Vendors:
    Tables are $45 for the first table, $25 for each additional tables
    We will not be holding a Flea market

Lodging:

    For non-local attendants, we have made arrangements with
    a local hotel, minutes away, for a special rate for
    conventioneers.

Transportation:

    Public Transportation is available.
    The lodge is on a major Metro Bus line (#1 bus)

For Further infomation about NOVAG VI or
   Northern Virginia Adventure Gamers:

    Voice: (703) 450-6738
    Mail:  NOVAG VI
           c/o WARGAMMERS HOBBY
           101 E. Holly Ave, Suite 5
           Sterling, VA 22170
    EMail: ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil
           (Please put "NOVAG" in title)

- --
Glenn Host - Senior Systems Analyst (ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil)
12307 Tigers Eye Court ; Reston, VA 22091
(703) 620-1141 
Board Gamer and Role Game player

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2908
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@freja.diku.dk>
Subject: The solution to a lot of Norris' headaches!
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 19:16:06 MET DST

The following is my attempt to explain away the most glaring
anomalies with the aslan situation  -  I still maintain that
the  whole mess is bloody unbelievable  -  plus an amazingly
simple idea that I'm quite proud of. I might even send it to
GDW if I thought it would amuse them ;-)

                                                HRM
____________________________________________________________________________


Message from High Commissioner the Lord Goolanzoon, Sector Admiral, Imperial
Navy  (ret.),  Minister without portfolio of the Archduchy of Deneb,  to His
Grace Archduke Norris of Deneb using the private cypher:



Dear Pruneface,

Well, the "Committee to Review the recent events in the Trojan Reaches with a
view to ascertaining etc. etc."  -  in short, what went wrong and what can we
do about it?   -   has finally completed it's investigation.  No doubt you'll
eventually get a predigested resume of our findings through your tame bureau-
crats, but I thought you'd appreciate a informal overview. (And to be totally
honest, I'm too damn exited to wait for an official reaction).
    First of all,  there's  no doubt that the whole thing was shockingly mis-
managed by the Duke of Tobia and Admiral Torgeson. They seem to've lost their
so-called heads completely.  True, most of the regular units were up coreward
watching the zhos, but the astrographics of the Reach is such that any first-
year  cadet  could've  stopped  the aslan by garrisoning a few key worlds and
forming  a few  fire-fighter squadrons.  These are ihatei,  after all,  using
obsolescent  clan hand-me-downs   -   not much superior to our Reserve forces
(rather the reverse,  if anything).  Hell,  give me a half-decent spy network
and  a  good  courier system and I'd've undertaken to stop them with half the
forces the two fatheads had.
    Instead  Tobia  and  Torgeson  concentrated their forces to guard the few
worlds that were already so well protected  that no sane aslan would dream of
trying  to  muscle  in on them and sat around with their thumbs up their bums
while  our bewhiskered land-grabbing friends grabbed left,  right and center.
And  none  of  the other nobles had the gumption to do anything more than try
and protect their own little patch  (mostly with pitiful results). Personally
I think that the proper cure for what ails the local nobility is a collective
brain-transplant.  If  you  can't  find  enough donors,  a set of cheap paper
substitutes will still be an improvement!
    I know, I know.  We can't really do anything about the nobles   -   but I
can  dream,  can't I?   -   but you ought to sack the top three levels of the
Fleet,  at  least.  There's a few you'd have to kick upstairs and a couple of
exceptions, but mot of the idiots deserve to be cashiered.  That's the result
of the Reach being too far from any real fighting for centuries,  I guess   -
all the fools wind up down here, where they, quote, "can't do any harm",  end
quote. Ha, bloody ha! I've said it myself, may the Guiding Spirit forgive me.
    I  spoke  of  fools,  but  I'm pretty sure that there's also a few knaves
around. That shocking business with Aki - ihatei that far inside the frontier
and 30 parsec from their base, for the luffa Mike!   -   couldn't've happened
without  the conniving of somebody pretty high up.  I have a few of my bright
young  men  looking into it   -   hopefully giving the lardbutts of the local
Naval Intelligence  (hmpf!)  a few well-deserved heart attacks in the process
- -  and when we find the culprits, the bastards are going to breathe vacuum!
    Mind you,  I've often wondered what made the aslan commit that particular
bit of lunacy. Imagine trying to control 10 billion locals with a few hundred
thousands.  They  had a couple of tech levels on the locals,  true,  but as I
always say,  once you can make explosives the rest is just dressing.  Anyway,
young Blackstone-Hawke - remember him?  He was one of Santanocheev's hangers-
on  and wound up in charge of the Gazulin Reserve Fleet after the shake-up  -
Well, he seems to have had a few more brain cells than we gave him credit for
(or  perhaps  being stuck in the boonies for half a decade has wised him up).
The  moment he heard about Aki he put a fleet across the aslani supply lines,
and  the  last  I  heard about it the survivors were at the peace tables with
their tail between their legs.  (Not that far between their legs though. They
have  been  raiding Glisten and a lot of other places for supplies,  and they
still control the Aki system. But I guess you know all this already).
    Anyway, there's no getting around the fact that the dam is well and truly
broken.  Apointing blame is all very well   -   it's rapidly becoming the fa-
vourite  sport  of the local nitwits   -   but the real problem is what to do
about  it.  Curiously enough according to my tame sociologists the problem is
more the locals than the aslans.  You remember the old diplomatic joke?  "You
give  us  what  we  want  or we beat the hell out of you and take it anyway"?
Well, apart from at Aki and a few other places, the aslans seems to have come
up  with a variant:  "You sell us what we want or we beat the hell out of you
and buy it anyway"! Most of them prefer to buy rather than take  -  they just
don't  take  no for an answer!  Nor would there normally be any problems with
getting  them to swear fealthy to the Imperium.  Well,  that's not altogether
true;  some of the clans are quite anti-Imperium.  But we'd have the strength
to deal with them if we could get along with the rest.
    That  would  seem to solve most of the problem,  wouldn't it?  If they're
willing to pay for what they take and to become loyal citizens, then we real-
ly should be able to work out something, right?  Alas, the locals have become
thoroughly paranoid about them and in many cases refuse to share their worlds
with  them.  They  organize their own militias and try to push the aslans off
their planets. And you know what happens when you push an aslan  -  he pushes
right back!  If something isn't done, the descendents of both sides are going
to be sniping at each others 200 years from now.
    Fortunately  we have been able to come up with a solution!  That's right,
we have an answer,  and it's so simple that you're going to kick yourself for
not thinking of it yourself.  I did when my aide earned the fastest promotion
in history with just one sentence.  Think about it. What are our two greatest
problems  today?  One is that we have all these young aslans swarming up from
rimwards, eager for land and willing to fight for it, and we can't stop them,
because most of our ships are up corewards trying to keep the damn Vargr from
devastating  more  planets  than they already have.  The other is keeping the
damn Vargr from devastating more planets than they already have, and we can't
do  that  because  a lot of our strength is tied up trying to keep the aslani
from getting to cosy with our real estate to the rim.
    I really wish I could see your face now,  Pruney.  As my aide said:  "Why
don't we get our two problems to fight each other?" Corewards and in Corridor
there  are  scores  of planets whose populations have been decimated;  untold
acres of prime land whose legitimate owners and their heirs are dead and gone.
We  can  hire all the ihatei we can get and pay them off with that land!  And
you can bet your bottom credit that the survivors are not going to regard the
aslans as interlopers. They'll be saviours!
    Furthermore, once we have a credible offer to make, we'll be able to play
the aslan clans off against each others. You know how fragile aslan alliances
are,  Frankly I'm amazed that the present one has held so long as it has, and
it  has only done so because they could get more out of cooperating with each
other than with us.  The land the aslans can get down here rimwards is mostly
second choice.  Give them an offer of prime land and they're not going to let
the  Vargr  stand  in  the  way.  And we'll be able to favour the friendliest
clans, leaving us in a position to make the unfriendly ones toe the line.
    With the extra strength the aslan can supply  (not to metion the ships we
will be able to spare from the rim)  we should be able to clear the Domain of
Vargr.  Hell,  we  may  even be in a position to clear Corridor,  although my
aslan  experts  doubt  it.  They say that the present massive burst of ihatei
will  taper  off in a year or so,  and that it will be a long time before the
pressure builds up to the pre-Revolution level. For one thing, the ihatei has
mostly  leap-frogged over all the neutral worlds we kept between them and us,
and  it will be some time before they've "filled in the cracks".  Still,  who
knows? Perhaps enough of them will prefer Corridor to filling in cracks.
    What  I  suggest is that we keep this plan secret and try to surprise the
Vargr.  The most pressing problem is Aki and the rest of Glisten. If you will
send me a warrant,  I'll take over the negotiations and get the ball rolling.
I've  already put my staff on to planning the logistics which,  I admit,  are
going to be a headache. But worth it, I'd say!

Cheerio,
Goggles.

____________________________________________________________________________

Any comments?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2909
Date:     Wed, 25 Sep 91 14:18:23 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  New Traveller )-8

While this is not ordinarily the optimum forum in which to discuss game design
theory, the current situation with regard to the possible Traveller revision
seems to justify it.

My question is: What advantages does anyone see in going to a compatible
game system?  Is there really any interest in running Traveller/Dark 
Conspiracy crossovers?  A well done Traveller game should already include
90% of the information needed to run a Traveller/Twilight:2000 crossover.
Does anyone feel that the number of special cases involved will be small
enough to give a real advantage in saving time switching from one system
to another?  That is, does it really take most of us very long to learn
the necessary amount of a new game system to be able to play the game?
Is a Traveller revision using Twilight rules going to have the same emphasis
on combat activities?  Are we going to be happy to be using a system where
an average character can take two average damage .50 caliber machine gun
bullets to the head without becoming unconscious?

I seem to be drifting away from the original topic of the question: what
do we gain by making the rules compatible?

(New players? Or just new sales for GDW to old players?)

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2910
From: chk@alias.COM (C. Harald Koch)
Subject: Re: NewTraveller
Date: 	Wed, 25 Sep 1991 12:36:40 -0400

> Does anyone else get the feeling of deja vu? It reminds me of all that furor
> not too long ago when some boneheads at Coca-Cola decided that what the public
> needed was "NewCoke" and that they will like it because, hey, they'll buy
> anything. The wisdom of foisting a product on an unresponsive consumer
> market should have been fairly obvious.

Sorry to digress so far from Traveller but:

Are you kidding? the Coca-Cola Corporation made a killing on that one! You
see, they brought out this new product, and 'discontinued' the old. Almost
everyone bought a New Coke at least once, just to see what it was like. Many
of these people were never Coke drinkers before. Some of these people
actually started drinking New Coke regularly! The result? an increased
market share.

Then, around a year (I think) later, they brought out 'Coke Classic'! Not
only did this appease most of the old, die-heard Coke drinkers, but it also
had exactly the same effect as New Coke: many people who never drank Coke
regulary before tried it, decided they liked it, and switched.

Coca Cola increased their market share appreciably with this marketing coup.
It's considered a classic in most marketing and advertising courses now.

Of course, GDW doesn't have the kind of advertising power that the Coca Cola
Corporation has... :-)

- -- 
C. Harald Koch  VE3TLA                Alias Research, Inc., Toronto ON Canada
Internet:    chk@alias.com      chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu      chk@chk.mef.org
"I think you curdled my Pepsi!"-Gerry Smit, in response to sickening cuteness

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2911
Date:     Wed, 25 Sep 91 16:44:50 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  [Greg Porter:  Re: Compatible Gaming Systems]

See enclosed message from Greg (3G) porter:

- ----- Forwarded message # 1:

Date:         Wed, 25 Sep 1991 16:33:00 EDT
Sender:       Gamemasters Interest Group <GMAST-L%UTCVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From:         Greg Porter <PORTERG%VCUVAX.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: Compatible Gaming Systems

I talked to Loren Wiseman (sp?) at GDW yesterday, and from what I hear, they
are undecided on the convert MT to T:2000 issue.  If you give a damn, let
them know, or suffer the consequences, one way or the other.

Greg

- ----- End of forwarded messages

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2912
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 15:15 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: More Zhodani Ships

Hi guys!

Just a few more Zho ships for fun!  Much to your collective
relief, these may be the last designs I put out for a while:  1st
year Grad Classes start Thursday.
Wish me luck!

Scott

Zhodani ZS Scout/Courier TL14 "Stebline" Class
Imperial Designation "Fecal"

CraftID:	Zhodani ZS Scout/Courier, TL14, MCr 51.49392
Hull:		90/225, Disp=100, Config=1AF, Armor=40G,
		Load=1265, Unload=930
Power:		4/8, Fusion=555MW, Dur=30/90
Loco:		5/10, Maneuver=2, 3/6, Jump=2, MaxAccel=2.72
		NOE=180, Cruise=2040, Max=2720, Agility=0
Comm:		Radio=System*2, Maser=System, RadioJam=System
Sensors:	EMM, P-EMS(Interstel), A-EMS(FarOrb), EMS-Jm(FarOrb),
		Neutrino=10Kw, Densitometer=250m
		ActObjScn=Rout	ActObjPin=Rout
		PasObjScn=Rout	PasObjPin=Rout
		PasEnScn=Simp	PasEnPin=Rout
Off:		HPt=1
		BLaser=x03
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Def:		DefDM+2

Control:	Computer Mod1bis*3, HoloHUD*2, HoloLink*2
Accom:		Crew=2(Bridge/Engineer=1, Gunner=1)
		Passenger=6, Stateroom=4,
		BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, G-Plate, I-Comps
Other:		Fuel=424kl(1 jump-2+30dy), Cargo=411kl,
		Scoops, Fuel Pure=6.75hr, SubCraft=1*6ton Speeder,
		ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=None
Remarks:	The Zhodani scout is used both by the military and
commercial concerns for frontier exploration and reconnaissance.
The Imperial designations are not known for their kind
asessments.
	The time required for fuel purification is 1/4 of a standard
Zhdant day


Zhodani Courier, TL 14 "Zefienzhjipr" Class
Imperial Designation "Trickster"

CraftID:	Zhodani Courier, TL14, MCr 103.2201
Hull:		180/450, Disp=200, Config=1AF, Armor=40G,
		Unload=1699, Load=2448
Power:		3/6, Fusion=844MW, Dur=30/90
Loco:		13/26, Jump=3, 4/8, Maneuver=2, MaxAccel=2.86
		NOE=180kph, Cruise=2040, Max=2720, Agility=1
Comm:		Radio=System*2, Maser=System, RadioJam=System
Sensors:	EMM, P-EMS(Interstel), A-EMS(FarOrb), EMS-Jm(FarOrb),
		Densitometer=250m, Neutrino=10kw
		ActObjScn=Rout	ActObjPin=Rout
		PasObjScn=Rout	PasObjPin=Rout
		PasEnScn=Simp	PasEnPin=Rout
Off:		HPt=1
		BLaser=x03
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Def:		DefDm+9
		SCaster=xx3
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Control:	Computer Mod3*3, HUD*3, HoloLink*3
Accom:		Crew=5(Bridge=1, Engineer=1, Gunner=1, Medic=1,
		Steward=1) Stateroom=9,
		BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, G-Plate, I-Comps
Other:		Fuel=887kl(1 jump-2+30dy), Cargo=623Kl,
		Scoops, Fuel Pure=6.75hr, SubCraft=1*6ton Speeder,
		ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=None
Remarks:	The Zhodani courier is a private vessel used by
government officials for travel and diplomatic purposes.
	I once ran a campaign of Zho characters who started out with
a 120 year old TL12 version of this ship.  She was named
"Kliemoshie" (translation:  Investigator of things that do not
fit)  She was called "Moshie" by the crew (translation:  Misfit)

Partial scheme of Imperial naming designations:
Fighter/Scout:  Begins with an F
Reconaissance/Courier:  Begins with a T

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2913
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 16:55 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: What's with this computer virus story?

Hi,

I don't know about you folks, but In the few campaigns I have run, and
in my dealings with Trav, I have always assumed that the Imperium, and
the rest of the Trav universe are in a state of equilibrium.

By that I mean that in order change something You need a lot of power
to do so.  In order to assasinate Strephon you need a fleet, an extremely
fool proof plan, or yu have to be an arch duke.  Thing like that.
The point being that there is something to prevent the ordianary players
from taking over the galaxy.

For every thing that the players might think up, there exists a defence
to oppose them.  (Well, nearly everything... remember the high speed
projectiles train...)  Thus Joe Player can't just write a quick virus
that will take over the galaxy.

If Joe Player could do it, Then Donny Zhodani would have done it centuries
ago!  Therefore, when computer viruses started becoming the new fashion
wave a couple of years ago.  I just assumed that in 5000 years the Imperium
would have some damn good countermeasures against viruses.  I may be no
computer whiz but I don't think a virus can get to a computer that is
shut down!  Presumably the Imerials would have reserve computers on line
in case someone did get through with a virus.

So defences MUST exist, and they have been presumably overcome.  Well, If
traveller is going to work, you must have a functioning jump drive.  That
requires a functioning model 1 computer.  Now in my opinion, a functioning
model one computer should be able to clear a model 2 of viruses.  A model
2 can clear a 3, and once you have worked your way up to 9, then you are
done!  Problem solved!  The Imperium is now functional.  QED

I dislike the messing about in the universe GDW is rumored to be considering.
Frankly, I don't like the Rebellion either!  All the campaigns I have run
are pre-Fifth Frontier War!  I have used MegaTrav rules, but not the Rebellion.

If GDW comes up with a whole new history, I'm not gonna go along with it.
Frankly, I've been trying to figure out just how powerful these computers are
to use them to their full potential in games (Bio-interfaces and all that
that isn't covered in MegaTrav)  Now They are trying to take the computer
stuff away.  Big mistake.  Computers are gonna be much more powerful in the
future.  And right now, computers are playing more and more important roles
in Science Fiction being written and read by the people who either are or
in future may be interested in playing (or even Buying) traveller.  I'm
talking about how to integrate cyberpunk stuff in with Trav.

This looks like a BIG mistake to me.

Scott Kellogg
- -One of the three Hordesmen of the apocolypse

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2914
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 15:01:53 edt
From: "Senioritis already?!? (Anderson, Richard)" <ANDERSOR%DICKINSN.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Another voice joins the chorus

On March 30, 1983, two friends of mine gave me the basic Beowulf starter set
for Traveller, and it was good.  Then, another friend of mine gave me book 5,
and it, too, was good.  Before I knew it, I had so many little 4"x5 1/2"
booklets that I hardly knew where to keep them all.  Traveller had been very
good to me, as well as to all the other people with whom I played it.  Sure,
it was a little rough around the edges, but that added to its charm.

Then MT came along... and let me just say that I think Strephon got the best
deal of any of us.  Traveller used to be a nice, infinitely moldable, and
over all, comfortable game.  Since the borders never changed, the only kind
of adventures available were small-scale mercenery tickets, espionage and
intrigue, trading/smuggling, sleuthing, etc.  This was fine with me because,
hey, who REALLY wanted to control whole squadrons and lead them into battle?
(That was, after all, what TCS was for.)  But even more importantly, who
really wants to have to play cat and mouse with battlecruisers when all they
have is an underarmed fat trader?  Maybe once in a character's lifetime, but
certainly not as a matter of course any time that one wants to travel beyond a
couple of subsectors.  In old Traveller, the scale of events was eminently
manageable.  The sheer size of the realm allowed the ref to do just about
anything... but the fact that the system was stable meant that none of the
possible options were proscribed.  You want adventure along a battle-zone?
Just head over to the Hinterworlds or to the Zhodani border.

But that is neither here nor there.  MT is here, and that's life.  (I guess
one could always become a romantic and go back to the old system... warts and
all.  My friends and I usually just used the rules we liked and ignored or
abstracted the rest.)  So now that the boys at GDW have become bored with
their little Congress of Vienna, eh?  Now they want to see the Visigoths
breach the walls of a declining rome, eh?  And to do this, they think they're
going to foist off some two-bit game system that sounds like a really bad
Wagner opera?  (No offense to any Wagner fans out there.)  Well, I have many,
many better things to spend my money on than 'new' game systems that base
their plot upon some over-zealous computer virus!

I guess I'll just have to hole myself up in an ivory tower somwhere and start
looking for people who want to do Traveller the old-fashioned way... Strephon
and all.

(Oh, and coincidentally, I never did purchase Fighting Sh--s or COAAC{K!}, so
I guess I don't have complete justification to be as angry as some of the
other TMLers.  I'll simply consider myself lucky on this count.)

There, that's all.  Thank you for listening to this romantic's lament.

Richard H. Anderson
ANDERSOR@DICKINSN.bitnet

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2915
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2914) Another voice joins the chorus
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 0:11:45 EDT

> Then MT came along... and let me just say that I think Strephon got the best
> deal of any of us.  Traveller used to be a nice, infinitely moldable, and
> over all, comfortable game.  Since the borders never changed, the only kind
> of adventures available were small-scale mercenery tickets, espionage and
> intrigue, trading/smuggling, sleuthing, etc.  This was fine with me because,
> hey, who REALLY wanted to control whole squadrons and lead them into battle?

	Oh I couldn't agree more. That is why I dislike Rebelion so.
Suddenly the entire universe is in chaos, makes the ref's life very
difficult.

					Mac

Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | grounded for a week!
=====================================| 			- Gloria
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2916
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2903) Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 3:41:35 EDT

......
> this seem to be something that the design crew and managers (if those groups
> are different people, the company is too large:) do if they are interested on
> their spare time and in others this has been formalized as a part of the 
> normal operation of the company. Steve Jackson Games seems to be an example on 
> the latter, and I think this is the way to go.

	I quite agree, and this is a new trend. The designers have found
on-line services to be a good way to keep in touch with the gamers. 
Not only SJG has this as part of the normal operation of the company,
but FASA, WEG also does the same. 

Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | grounded for a week!
=====================================| 			- Gloria
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2917
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2909)  New Traveller )-8
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 3:54:29 EDT

I think the whole thing with this compatible system is so that people
who is well verse in one game can jump into another with ease.

For example, anyone who is well verse in Dark Conspiracy can learn to
play TW2000 just like that. If I have never play Traveller before,
and I know that the system is compatible with other GDW games which I
have had experience with, it'd be easier for me to learn the game.
And since I'm usually lazy, that would prove to be an adavantage for me.

Also, I think it would incrase the usefulness of GDW supplements.
If the rules are compatible, I can use say TW2000's Infantry weapons
of the world if I so desire without much work on my part. Making the
rules compatible isn't just for running cross over campaigns.

				Mac, who has no idea why he's up at 4AM!

Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | grounded for a week!
=====================================| 			- Gloria
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2918
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 10:12:28 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)


PRELUDE:
  I have recently started up a traveller game.  No, not MT, but original traveller.
(well, I bought the referee's guide for the ship generation).
Well, that one guide opened up a can o' worms.   As a result, I was planning to
tweak the ship combat anyways.  

Rob Dean says:
[]     I had the opportunity (misfortune?) of having space combat in my weekly
[] Traveller game last Monday night.  I was going to sit down immediately after
[] the game and write a lengthy diatribe on the flaws in that system, but sense
[] prevailed.  I woke up the next morning and realized that I had done my 
[] modifiers backwards, and that the enemy ship with armor-52 (-4 die modifier)
[] was not, in fact, nearly invincible.  However, the question of discontinuity
[] between the space and vehicle combat systems remained.

I noticed that as well.  They palmed the high-guard system for damage resolution,
but this just makes it worse.

Problem #1: Scale is too big
I know this is the future, but the hex scale is just too immense, as is the
time scale.  I prefer a more of a dogfight atmosphere, with short (30 second)
turns and reasonable distances. Besides, look at the ROF of a beam laser -- 30
per minute.  At a 20 minute scale there should be so many crossing beams that
each side will get very many hits.  Even being somewhat pessimistic, 9+ total to
hit produces about 150-200 beam hits.  After one turn, most ships will look
like cheese shreaders.  

Another problem is missiles.  It takes a M-6 ship 1 turn to travel 6 hexes if
starting from a standstill.  Missiles launched said ship when many hexes away
hit THAT SAME TURN.  Ppbbtt!

With a 30 second turn (3 personal combat turns), the hexes are 4.5km across
(so we'll fudge it to 5km).

[] was experiencing was that two small ships (1 200 tons, the other 400 tons)
[] could not do any damage to each other except Fuel-1, Weapons-1, and, I
[] think, Maneuver-1 (I'm not sure about that because of the modifier screw

Armor should be used similar to the 2300ad way -- shots that do not
penetrate can cause surface hits.  This will most likely damage sensors,
exposed comminications gear, turrets, and perhaps the maneuver drive (giv it half
armor?).  Everything else is unaffected.  Penetrating hits have the possiblility
of producing surface damage in addition to internal damage.

The result of this is that heavily armored ships without penetrating weapons will
shoot each other blind (and perhaps immobile).  Just like shooting a rifle at a
tank.  You might clip the headlights, radio stalk and IR systems, but do little
else.

[] up).  Using the vehicle combat system, we quickly see that a 250 MW laser
[]has a pretty useful penetration versus an armor-40 hull, and that the
[] 250 damage points done in a typical 'low penetration' hit will pretty well
[] trash any part of the ship that has separate damage points.  As I described

This is the major problem I saw.  Another that I feel is wrong is the way
hits are calculated.  Doubling the size of a component does not double the
damage it can take, in my mind.  I have come up with a small formula based on
hull volume and the hull armor weigh modifier to compute the hull hits.
I use a square-root rule (4x volume is 2x effective).  At present the formula
is something like SQRT(VOL/4050/WM)*7.  VOL is hull volume, WM is armor weight
modifier.  "7" is the constant I use for basic hits, assuming crystaliron
I think.  Steel ships have less, superdense have more, etc.  Assuming
the normal armor, a 100t ship has 7 hull hits until it is "disabled", meaning
no maneuvering allowed.  Perhaps at double this it just falls apart.

Now this value may be too low.  I presume that with every penetration you get a
free hull hit as well, so this should be upped.  Any comments on a good value?
Lasers might do 1 hull hit, energy weapons 2 hull hits, missiles 1d6 hull hits,
nukes 6d6 hull hits, or something like that.  In this case, it better be upped.

[] the combat, our heroes fired numerous missiles at the enemy until all turrets
[] were knocked out, and then closed to visual range to deliver the coup de grace
[] to the enemy with their single laser...regrettably the enemy vessel had 
[] repaired one laser in a triple turret and fired one shot which nearly destroyed
[] the player's ship's power plant.  I'm satisfied with that result, but not

Well, another problem with long turns.  But, players will have little chance as well
with short turns.

[] with the method used to generate it.  (I know, I have a copy of Bertil's
[] system, but I haven't read it enough to use it yet...).  I found that in the
[] heat of the game that it was not worthwhile to worry about sensor rolls, and
[] that the -1 per hex sensor penalty seems too severe given that weapons are
[] supposed to have a 500,000km range. We also used a Mayday set for combat
[] resolution, which took a few minutes to explain about vectors...but not so
[] many minutes that it seemed prohibitive.

I really don't like the "real" movement very much when I'm playing a space-opera
game.  I may try to use a variant of the 2300ad system, where ships have a
raw speed for each turn.  Actually, I'd like to use some Star Fleet Battles
Ideas as well.  With such a system, you actually have to plot your movement
so as to expose your best weapons (or to hide battle damage to the armor.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In any case, I'm presently beating on the vehicle design system in order to
put some sense into it.  I am referencing Striker for much of the information.
For example, I am using the air frame table as a guide to expand the streamlining
options (USL = simple, SL = Transonic, AF = Hypersonic).  I am also using
the 2300ad idea on steamling (Transonic streamlining wastes 10% of the chosen
volume, Hypersonic wastes 20%, Supersonic wastes 15%, subsonic wastes 5%).
This will fit in well with the planetoid space-waste.

If anyone has the collected articles or notes of the TDR vehicle system,
could you please mail it to me at burt%pager.ptltd.com?  And also, comments
on the above stuff would be great.

    -- Burton

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2919
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 11:25:06 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)

Subject: Revision

Well, I might as well put my Cr2 into the maelstrom...
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, I started playing traveller in 1979, and started running
it in 1980.  Yea, back with the old books.  I basically ran my
game through high school, then stopped (other things, no players,
etc).  

Last year or so (maybe 2 years ago) I got Traveller:2300 because
I wanted to run traveller again, and was thrilled at the prospect
of an "upgrade" to a cleaner and more modern system.  You have to
face it people, traveller was designed in the D&D era, where every
game had 6 characteristics.  The basic system was simple, and
with every suppliment, book and adventure became more rich in
background.  However, the basic artifacts of the simple system
remained:

You have an area (the spinward marches) that has been settled for
about 1000 years.  Yet, tech level is ALL OVER THE PLACE.
High, low, you name it.  

Anyways, I bought 2300ad when the revision came out, and it did fix
some flaws (I did, however, switch to using 2d6 for task rolls
because I liked the curve better).

At present, I am once again running traveller, having dug up all
my old books.  Yes, I bought the Referee's guide because
I wanted the vehicle design rules.  (but that is another
victim on the torture table for another time).

What I'm trying to get at here is that Traveller, MT, and any other
system BASED on it is already obsolete as far as I am concerned.
While I have not sunk as much investment into MT as others of you
out there, I have plopped down plenty for othert game systems
through the years, and will most likely continue to do so until
I find THE game that suits me and my players best.

If GDW does a revision, they should start from scratch.  No basing
it on another system.  They should start with an initial premise
about the feel of the game ("hard" SF?  Science Fantasy?
Space Opera?) and design the game around that feel.  If you
are going to pretend to have science in a game, don't be a
slave to the dice (see below).  Have more than six characteristics
if that is what it takes to define the character (I lean toward
at least 8, 4 physical and 4 mental).  Don't make social standing
and education a characteristic,make it a background.

In short, they should be innovative.  While some systems are unweildy,
they should be able to pool their resources and come up with
the SF game of the 90's and beyond.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
In a related note, for TDR people, I have tweaked my world generating
system into a blend of 2300ad, traveller and other sources.
As a result, I had to pitch the spinward marches out the window
and regenerate it.  Here is a sample world:

Zdazeplipl  (Zh)  B 12k 0.74g Thi/VLo t  57%   6b 78-B <A->  -- (3 )

Cryptic?  Mabye.  But much more real in the way it is generated than
by using a 2-12 range...

World Physical Stats: Generated first.  Size is found similar to
that in 2300ad, rated in thousands of kilometers.  Density
determined, and the gravity is found from that.

Atmosphere: I palmed Mr. Bruddick's Star system generation program
for interesting formulas, such as determining volitile inventory.
With the inventory rating, I simply check to see if the escape
velocity for gasses with a molecular weight of 44 or less is
greater than that of the world.  If so, it is a vacuum world.  If
not, the inventory, spread evenly about the surface determines
pressure.  I roll 2d6 for 8+ (modifiers for high pressure)
for tainting.  If tainted, a second 2d6 roll checks for irritant.
If irritant, a third roll checks for corrosiveness.

Hydro: Again, once volitile inventory is found, I check to see if
water vapor can escape the world.  If so, the world goes dry.
If not, surface area and a random element determines amount of
water cover based on inventory.

Oxygen: Based on the amount of water present, and assuming oxygen
molecules can't escape the planet, I determine an oxygen
content.  It is possible now to have worlds with thin atmospheres,
but require oxygen tanks.  Likewise, you can have very thin pressures
but enough oxygen pressure to breath without respirators.
In the info above, the world has a Thin atmosphere and a Very Low
Oxygen content.

Population:  The trickiest part.  Once the world's condition is
determined, I determine a population modifier based on how
desireable the world is.  T-norm worlds have the greatest modifiers,
but any world with a breathable atmosphere is better off than an
airless rock.  I then tweak this basic modifier depending on the
"age" of the subsector (mature?  Established?  Recently colonized?)
And add a random element to the modifier.  Values below 1 are
considered to be empty worlds that nobody bothered to colonize.
This population roll is checked on a table to find the population
rating (minimum of 1000, max of 100b).  This rating is cut down
if the available surface area and tech level aren't up to it.
(no, I will not shoehorn 10b people on a 1km rockball!  Likewise,
unless there is lots of room, no way is a TL-0 culture going to
number in the billions). 

Starport: yes, starport is generated AFTER population.  There are
several tables, with the higher populations getting a better chance
of having a class A Starport.  

Government: Actually broken into 3 seperate generation systems, for
lo, moderate and high populations.  Low population worlds roll on
a simple table (of governments I think they can have), while
moderate populations roll a single dice (okay, a d15, but thats
what computers are for).  High population governments roll a single
dice as well, but the greater they are above a certain point (1b
people) the greater the chance the type will be Balkenized.

Law: Actually calculated the same way -- Gov-7+2d6

Tech: Totally different means of determination.  Starport type
drives tech level (for example, Type A might be 16-1d4, Type B
might be 16-1d6, etc).  If generating worlds for a cohesive or linked
culture (imperium, Zhodani, etc), reduce the variance by 1 (i.e.
make a 1d3 roll instead of a 1d4 roll).  If a tight culture
(sword worlds), reduce tha variance by 2.  If on the fringes
of a large collective, increase the variance by 1.
Set a limiting TL for the culture (generally 15 for Imperium,
14 for Zhodani and Vargr, 12 for Sword worlds and other independant
worlds).  Oh yea, non-alligned worlds add 2 to the variance.

The code afterwards is my means of classifying tech levels.
Class-A worlds have star travel, class B worlds have space travel,
class C are industriallized, Class D are pre-industrial civilized,
and class F worlds are precivilized.

The "--" notes the number of rings, number of moons.  I determine
number of sattelites, randomly figure the orbits, and shatter
any that fall within the roche limit.

The (3 ) is number of gas giants, followed by the number of
asteroid belts.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, that's what I use.  Travel codes are figured pretty much the
same way (except that they often look at oxygen content instead
of atmo pressure)
    
Any comments?
     -- Burton

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2920
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 11:47:38 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: On Hans's Aslan idea

Q: Would you rather have a lion attack you or a wolf?
A: I'd rather he attacked the wolf.

(read it out loud with different inflections to get the joke)
|->

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2921
From: chaber@kentmarsh.COM (Cecil A. Habermacher)
Subject: Re: (2908) The solution to a lot of Norris' headaches!
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 10:47:37 CDT

>Any comments?
>
>
>      Hans Rancke
>University of Copenhagen
>     rancke@diku.dk


Sounds good, yet also familiar; isn't this the way the Angles, Jutes
and Saxons were able to get a toehold in Britain defending former
Roman citizens from encroaching Welsh and Scots after the pullout
of the Legions back in the late fourth and early fifth centuries?  
As I recall, the Angles and Saxons then proceeded to quite happily
divide up the country between them... Wonder who'll control the Domain
in 100, 200 or 500 years if this happens?

Cecil

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Sep 30 00:42:05 1991
Received: from relay.tek.com by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA07201) Mon, 30 Sep 91 00:41:36 EDT
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA26801@relay.tek.com>; Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:00:52 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA13506; Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:04:07 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA23135; Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:00:30 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA11267; Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:00:25 PDT
Message-Id: <9109300400.AA11267@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #239: Msgs 2922-2938
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 91 21:00:24 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: RO


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Sep 29 21:00:20 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #239: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2922  26-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Star Viking << It occurs to me that most of u
2923  26-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  For my game... << Scavenger class Salvage Sub
2924  26-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  TL4 Boats << The craft below were designed us
2925  26-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  TL4 Boats << The craft below were designed us
2926  27-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: New Traveller )-8 << > From: "Robert S. D
2927  27-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Another voice joins the chorus << > From:
2928  27-Sep-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Solution to Norris' problems. << Mike Met
2929  27-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic Gas Giant ignition. << Hello, A question to a
2930  27-Sep-91 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. pending << >TML nightly Thu Sep 26 20:31:47 P
2931  27-Sep-91 Anthony Neal      Computer Viruses and me... << Greetings to my
2932  27-Sep-91 Anthony Neal      And what about computers anyway! << Yeah, it'
2933  00-Jan-00 Alan Huscroft     Re: (2913) What's with this computer virus st
2934  27-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  An eclectic assortment << It's been a slow da
2935  27-Sep-91 whservd!gsw@att.a Re: NewTraveller << By the way, Classic Coke 
2936  28-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic Roche Limit << PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU writes: >
2937  28-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: And what about computers anyway << > From
2938  28-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic 2300AD missiles << Hello, Has anyone ever tri

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2922
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1991 11:48 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Star Viking

It occurs to me that most of us do Not like the
idea of smashing up the Imperium just to accomodate a Plundering
free and easy scenerio like Star Viking is roumored to be.

It further occurs to me that there has already been a periold of
free and easy looting, raping and pludering in the history 
of the Imperium:  The Long Night.

If GDW has its heart set on a Plundering game, why not set it in
that period?  Tech levels were low.  The life of a pirate was easy!

Instead of putting Star Viking in the Imperium's future, set it in
the past (Where I can forget about it!)

Scott Kellogg
'Dark Wolf'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2923
Date:     Thu, 26 Sep 91 14:57:11 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  For my game...

Scavenger class Salvage Submarine TL10

     The Scavenger class minisub is designed for support of underwater sal-
vage operations.  Its closed cycle fuel cell array can power the vessel for 
up to 96 hours underwater.  Life support and accommodations are sufficient 
for up to 6 crew members for extended duration missions, and up to 12 if 
missions are restricted to 16 hours.  The Scavenger has an adequate active 
and passive sonar system, as well as externally mounted lights to allow 
operation of the robotic arms to be controlled visually.  Divers can be 
deployed via the airlock if operating at appropriate depths.

  CraftID: Scavenger class Salvage Submarine, TL10, Cr3,539,000
     Hull: 18/36/54/72, Disp=20, Conf=3SL, Armor=45E, Loaded=270t,
           Unloaded=199.5t, Length=28.5m, MaxDepth=1050m
    Power: 1/2, FuelCells*20=1.8MW, Dur=4days
     Loco: 1/2, Propeller (electric drive)*1, P/W=1.75, Max Speed=20kph
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, ActiveSonar=Distant, PassiveSonar=Distant,
           ActSonarScan=Diff, ActSonarPin=Diff, PassSonarScan=Diff, 
           PassSonarPin=Form
      Off: none
      Def: none
  Control: Comp Mod0*2, HeadsUpDisplay*1, DynLink*20
    Accom: Crew=4 (Helmsman, Engineer, Sonar Operator, Salvage Specialist),
           Passengers=2, Bunks*6, Seats=Roomy*6, Env=basic env, basic ls,  
           extended ls, airlock
    Other: Fuel=6.912kl, Cargo=0, BallastTank=70kl, 2*HeavyRobotArms,
           2*LightRobotArms, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint, AcousticSig=Minimal

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2924
Date:     Thu, 26 Sep 91 16:02:39 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  TL4 Boats

The craft below were designed using the draft Herbert watercraft system,
as was the submarine uploaded earlier today.  You can see what these might
be for, based on the note about my campaign.  (-:

Rob Dean



Coastal Fishing Boat TL4

     The fishing boat shown below is typical of those found on low tech 
planets with useful sealife.  While a crew of six would be normal for this 
vessel, up to six additional crew members could be carried by 'hot berthing' 
(allowing use of each bunk by a crew member for only 12 hours out of 24), an 
uncomfortable and unpopular practice.  At higher tech levels, a small auxil-
iary motor for harbor navigation is usually added.

  CraftID: Coastal Fishing Boat, TL4, Cr49,920
     Hull: 9/18/27/36, Disp=10, Config=4USL, Armor=4W, Unloaded=22.45t, 
           Loaded=47.25t, Length=21.75m 
    Power: none
     Loco: 1/2, Sails=60 sq.m., P/W=1.27, Speed=15kph 
     Comm: none
  Sensors: none
      Off: none
      Def: -
  Control: Mech*4
    Accom: Crew=6 (Sailors=2, Fishermen=4), Bunks*6, Env=none, 
           Subcraft=4*Stacking Dories
    Other: Cargo=24.8kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=None, AcousticSig=None

Stacking Dory TL4

     The stacking dory is a small boat typically found on fishing vessels, 
where the ability to stack the boats, reducing the deck space taken up, is a 
valuable feature.  A single oarsman can propel the dory at half walking 
speed, two or more at walking speed.  Four seats are provided, but usually 
only one or two crewmen are carried, with the extra space reserved for fish.  
A small watertight cargo locker holds food, fresh water, and fishing sup-
plies.

  CraftID: Stacking Dory, TL4, Cr910
     Hull: 1/2/3/4, Disp=.056, Config=4USL open topped, Armor=2W,
           Loaded=0.61t, Length=3m
    Power: none
     Loco: Oars (see above) 
     Comm: none
  Sensors: none
      Off: -
      Def: -
  Control: Mech*1
    Accom: Crew=1 (Oarsman=1), Passengers=3, Seats=Open*4, Env=none
    Other: Fuel=0, Cargo=0.05kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=None, 
           AcousticSig=None

Longboat TL4

     The longboat is a small boat often carried aboard a larger vessel to 
serve as a lifeboat, and also used for routine utility work such as transfer-
ring passengers ashore. At least four oarsmen are required to propel the 
longboat at half walking speed, eight or more at walking speed.  Twenty seats 
are provided, and up to a half a ton of cargo can be carried, depending on 
the load of passengers.

  CraftID: Longboat, TL4, Cr3010
     Hull: 1/2/3/4, Disp=0.5, Config=4USL open topped, Armor=2W,
           Loaded=3.16t, Length=6.2m
    Power: none
     Loco: Oars (see above) 
     Comm: none
  Sensors: none
      Off: -
      Def: -
  Control: Mech*1
    Accom: Crew=4 (Oarsmen=4), Passengers=16, Seats=Open*20, Env=none
    Other: Fuel=0, Cargo=0.5kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=None, 
           AcousticSig=None

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2925
Date:     Thu, 26 Sep 91 16:02:39 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  TL4 Boats

The craft below were designed using the draft Herbert watercraft system,
as was the submarine uploaded earlier today.  You can see what these might
be for, based on the note about my campaign.  (-:

Rob Dean



Coastal Fishing Boat TL4

     The fishing boat shown below is typical of those found on low tech 
planets with useful sealife.  While a crew of six would be normal for this 
vessel, up to six additional crew members could be carried by 'hot berthing' 
(allowing use of each bunk by a crew member for only 12 hours out of 24), an 
uncomfortable and unpopular practice.  At higher tech levels, a small auxil-
iary motor for harbor navigation is usually added.

  CraftID: Coastal Fishing Boat, TL4, Cr49,920
     Hull: 9/18/27/36, Disp=10, Config=4USL, Armor=4W, Unloaded=22.45t, 
           Loaded=47.25t, Length=21.75m 
    Power: none
     Loco: 1/2, Sails=60 sq.m., P/W=1.27, Speed=15kph 
     Comm: none
  Sensors: none
      Off: none
      Def: -
  Control: Mech*4
    Accom: Crew=6 (Sailors=2, Fishermen=4), Bunks*6, Env=none, 
           Subcraft=4*Stacking Dories
    Other: Cargo=24.8kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=None, AcousticSig=None

Stacking Dory TL4

     The stacking dory is a small boat typically found on fishing vessels, 
where the ability to stack the boats, reducing the deck space taken up, is a 
valuable feature.  A single oarsman can propel the dory at half walking 
speed, two or more at walking speed.  Four seats are provided, but usually 
only one or two crewmen are carried, with the extra space reserved for fish.  
A small watertight cargo locker holds food, fresh water, and fishing sup-
plies.

  CraftID: Stacking Dory, TL4, Cr910
     Hull: 1/2/3/4, Disp=.056, Config=4USL open topped, Armor=2W,
           Loaded=0.61t, Length=3m
    Power: none
     Loco: Oars (see above) 
     Comm: none
  Sensors: none
      Off: -
      Def: -
  Control: Mech*1
    Accom: Crew=1 (Oarsman=1), Passengers=3, Seats=Open*4, Env=none
    Other: Fuel=0, Cargo=0.05kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=None, 
           AcousticSig=None

Longboat TL4

     The longboat is a small boat often carried aboard a larger vessel to 
serve as a lifeboat, and also used for routine utility work such as transfer-
ring passengers ashore. At least four oarsmen are required to propel the 
longboat at half walking speed, eight or more at walking speed.  Twenty seats 
are provided, and up to a half a ton of cargo can be carried, depending on 
the load of passengers.

  CraftID: Longboat, TL4, Cr3010
     Hull: 1/2/3/4, Disp=0.5, Config=4USL open topped, Armor=2W,
           Loaded=3.16t, Length=6.2m
    Power: none
     Loco: Oars (see above) 
     Comm: none
  Sensors: none
      Off: -
      Def: -
  Control: Mech*1
    Accom: Crew=4 (Oarsmen=4), Passengers=16, Seats=Open*20, Env=none
    Other: Fuel=0, Cargo=0.5kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=None, 
           AcousticSig=None

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2926
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: New Traveller )-8
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 91 9:36:29 MET DST

> From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
> Subject: (2909)  New Traveller )-8
> 
> My question is: What advantages does anyone see in going to a compatible
> game system?  Is there really any interest in running Traveller/Dark 
> Conspiracy crossovers?

  "Who needs elves when we got Darrians?" :)

> A well done Traveller game should already include
> 90% of the information needed to run a Traveller/Twilight:2000 crossover.

  Since the timelines are different, ie T2k (and 2300??) has a limited nuclear
war and no Vilani on Barnard and MegaT has no nuke war but lots of Vilani at
Barnard, I don't actually see the possibilities of a crossover, unless we are
talking about some other planet than Earth. And even then it could be done
with the origianl rules.
  (Gashikan after the Sack of Gashikan, for example)

  'Dark' is even further from MegaT than T2k and I'd go so far as to say that
I cannot see the justification of a crossover without some major verbal
acrobatics.

  "Whaddyamean 'Both Strephons were false'??!!"

> Rob Dean

- -bertil-
- -- 
'Det a"r oo"versa"ttbart...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2927
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Another voice joins the chorus
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 91 10:43:29 MET DST

> From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
> Subject: (2915) Re: (2914) Another voice joins the chorus
> 
> 	Oh I couldn't agree more. That is why I dislike Rebelion so.
> Suddenly the entire universe is in chaos, makes the ref's life very
> difficult.

  It also disrupts the referees longterm planning. Before the rebellion there
were a static situation that would look essentially the same for decades. There
were the frontier wars, but they never led to any big changes, so the ref
could happily plot away in the total conviction that no major changes would
lie ahead.
  Then came the rebellion, and now nobody really knows what will happen in 1122
since the Rebellion Soucebook just goes up to 1121 or something. Besides, 
who needed a soucebook of that kind before the rebellion?

  This change is best illustrated by the contents of the Traveller News Service.
Before the rebellion normal news were "4 vargr corsairs captured". Post-Strephon
it is "4 Billions dead when <random emperor> bombs <random planet>."
 
> 					Mac
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
'Det a"r oo"versa"ttbart...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2928
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@freja.diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Solution to Norris' problems.
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 91 10:51:09 MET DST

Mike Metlay on my Aslan idea:
>
> Q: Would you rather have a lion attack you or a wolf?
> A: I'd rather he attacked the wolf.
>

(Said in tones of hushed reverence): "That's beautiful, Mike!"
Can I use it? Can I? Please! Pretty please!

> From: chaber@kentmarsh.COM (Cecil A. Habermacher)
> Subject: (2921) Re: (2908) The solution to a lot of Norris' headaches!
>
> Sounds good, yet also familiar; isn't this the way the Angles, Jutes
> and Saxons were able to get a toehold in Britain defending former
> Roman citizens from encroaching Welsh and Scots after the pullout
> of the Legions back in the late fourth and early fifth centuries?
> As I recall, the Angles and Saxons then proceeded to quite happily
> divide up the country between them... Wonder who'll control the Domain
> in 100, 200 or 500 years if this happens?
>
1) There are 600+ systems in the Domain. Letting the aslans
   have part of 10 or 20 of them is not going to put them in a
   position to divide up the Domain.
2) Even if it did, aslans have this thing about loyalty. There
   are already millions of loyal aslani citizens in the Domain.
3) Even if they didn't, I think Norris would prefer peace in
   his time and let the future take care of itself.
4) Even if he didn't, the aslans are already IN the Domain. The
   only question is wether they eventually settle corewards or
   rimwards.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2929
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 91 05:58:05 PDT
Subject: Gas Giant ignition.

 
Hello,
 
        A question to all you physics people - I have generated a system
for 2300AD. One of the planets came out a gas giant. But this one seems to
be the mommy and daddy of all gas giants.
 
        Will planet A-VI ignite?
 
        A second question refers to the habitable planets. How does one
calculate the length of the local day (i.e. rotation speed) of a given
planet, and its temperature ranges? In the data below I just decided on
arbitrary values.
 
        System data enclosed below:
 
 
                   A                     B
              Primary (G8V)         Secondary (M0V)
 Magnitude:       6.12                  9.28
      Mass:       0.90                  0.54
    Radius:       0.90                  0.48
Luminosity:       0.32                  0.04
Life Zones:   0.40/0.56/0.82au     0.14/0.2/0.29au
 
    Orbits:       0.30au                0.19au
                  0.45au                0.40au
                  0.59au                0.84au
                  1.12au                1.68au
                  1.46au
                  1.90au
 
Orbital data:
   Planet  Core Diameter Density   Mass     Gravity  Period  Satt     Orbit
                  (km)   (Earth)  (Earth)     (G)    (Days)           (kkm)
           ---- -------- -------  --------  -------  ------  ----     -----
Primr III:  RK   11,000    1.1      0.7210   0.955   174.16   2
        a: CHNK   1,000    NA       NA       NA        4.62            110
        b:  RK    2,000    1.4      0.0050   0.220    67.57            660
 
       VI:  RK  320,000    1.2  19386.0000  29.580  1006.48  11
        a: RING    NA      NA       NA       NA       NA               320
        b:  RK    6,000    1.2      0.4310   0.853     2.04          1,920
        c: CHNK     300    NA       NA       NA       12.44          6,400
        d:  IC   27,000    0.5      4.8500   1.066    22.86          9,600
        e:  IC   33,000    0.4      7.0800   1.042    49.19         16,000
        f: CHNK     800    NA       NA       NA       50.11         16,200 
        g: CHNK     800    NA       NA       NA       64.66         19,200 
        h:  RK   13,000    1.3      1.4000   1.334    99.55         25,600
        i:  IC   29,000    0.3      3.6000   0.687   118.78         28,800
        j:  IC    7,000    0.1      0.0160   0.055   160.51         35,200
        k: CHNK     700    NA       NA       NA      182.88         38,400
 
Secnd   I:  RK    9,000    1.3      0.4670   0.924    41.09   1
        a:  RK    6,500    1.2      0.1600   0.600    62.14            540
 
 
A-III:
      Orbit: 0.59 au (optimal life zone), garden planet
     Period: 174.16 standard days, 18.24 hour local day
       Type: Rocky core, 11,000 km diam., 1.1 dens., 0.955 G, 0.721 mass
Hydrosphere: Oceans, 80% surface
 Atmosphere: Dense, 0.925 atm. at sea level, 22% oxygen, 0.204 atm. oxygen
Temperature: +28C to -4C avg.
 
 
A-VI:
      Orbit: 1.12 au, super gas giant
     Period: 1006.48 standard days, 10.7 hour local "day"
       Type: Rocky core, 320,000 km diam., 1.2 dens., 29.58 G, 19386 mass
 Atmosphere: Massive, 29.58 atm. at "sea" level
 
 
B-I:
      Orbit: 0.19 au (optimal life zone), garden planet
     Period: 41.09 standard days, 32.2 hour local day
       Type: Rocky core, 9,000 km diam., 1.3 dens., 0.924 G, 0.467 mass
Hydrosphere: Oceans, 70% surface
 Atmosphere: Dense, 0.894 atm. at sea level, 20% oxygen, 0.1788 atm. oxygen
Temperature: +35C to +2C avg.
 
 
B-Ia:
      Orbit: 540,000km
       Type: Rocky core, 6,500km diam., 1.2 dens., 0.6 G, 0.16 mass
Hydrosphere: Oceans, 60% surface
 Atmosphere: Dense, 0.595 atm. at sea level, 19% oxygen, 0.113 atm. oxygen
Temperature: +34C to +1C avg.
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2930
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Fri, 27 Sep 91 09:55 EDT
Subject: pending

>TML nightly     Thu Sep 26 20:31:47 PDT 1991    Volume 26 : Issue 5
>
>Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 11:25:06 EDT
>From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)
>Subject: (2919)
>
>Subject: Revision

>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>In a related note, for TDR people, I have tweaked my world generating
>system into a blend of 2300ad, traveller and other sources.
>As a result, I had to pitch the spinward marches out the window
>and regenerate it.  Here is a sample world:
>
>Zdazeplipl  (Zh)  B 12k 0.74g Thi/VLo t  57%   6b 78-B <A->  -- (3 )
>
>Cryptic?  Mabye.  But much more real in the way it is generated than
>by using a 2-12 range...
>
>
>Oxygen: Based on the amount of water present, and assuming oxygen
>molecules can't escape the planet, I determine an oxygen
>content.  It is possible now to have worlds with thin atmospheres,
>but require oxygen tanks.  Likewise, you can have very thin pressures
>but enough oxygen pressure to breath without respirators.
>In the info above, the world has a Thin atmosphere and a Very Low
>Oxygen content.

Good.  Splitting up the atmosphere and its contents I like.  I was going to
suggest that you rate the atmosphere in total pressure and partial pressure of
oxygen, but on second reading, I see that you have, just in descriptive instead
of numerical terms.  Theoretically, a human can breathe fine in a pure oxy
atmosphere who's total pressure equals the partial pressure of oxy on Earth,
right? (the figure 3.5 pounds stickss in my head for this)  Leaving out
problems dealing with the low pressure, of course.

>
> ...
>
>
>The "--" notes the number of rings, number of moons.  I determine
>number of sattelites, randomly figure the orbits, and shatter
>any that fall within the roche limit.
>
Ahhh, yes.  The Roche limit.  I read many years ago, that Luna is inside
Terra's Roche Limit, yet Luna doesn't break up from tidal stresses.  Does
anyone know if that question has been settled?  Not being a planetologist type,
I sort of lost track of the question.


Paul.
- -----------
Captain Sir Michael Talmoth,  UPP:  BA5A8B

"You see me now a veteran,
     Of a thousand psychic wars,
         I've been living on the edge so long,
             Where the winds of Limbo roar.
- -- BOC


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2931
Date: 	Fri, 27 Sep 1991 11:10:25 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <uunet!pluto.cs.mun.ca!anthonyn@sequent.UUCP>
Subject: Computer Viruses and me...



Greetings to my fellow Travellers...

	I've been watching and waiting for an opening that I thought I might
	be able to put in a useful two cents worth, and here's something I 
	think I may be able to contribute to.

	On Wednesday, Sept 25, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> I may be no computer whiz but I don't think a virus can get to a computer
> that is shut down!  Presumably the Imerials would have reserve computers on
> line in case someone did get through with a virus.

	Well, no. A virus can't infiltrate a powered down computer. But, it can
	infiltrate the common storage facilities that your three onboard ship's
	computers share, for instance.
	Onboard a ship, you will have information which has to be available to 
	all systems, a data bank, if you will. Sure, you encounter a virus that
	you picked up over a bad Holocrystal of the V7043.6 Space Invaders. It
	happens. But the big problem is that the first thing on that devious little
	virus's mind is to get itself onto that computer's main storage. Once 
	there, it's gonna replicate.
	Then, of course, any well written virus is gonna write itself into the 
	boot sector of your main storage. Great. Now let's run with this, shall we.

		Maira, your model 9 shipboard computer has been monitoring networking
		communications between two rival faction ships. And they know that you
		know that they're communicating. You're model 9 is dumping all data
		to main storage. Perfect. So they send out a virus affectionately 
		nicknamed "Lost". Their computers have a routine running that spots
		the virus 'cause they know all about this tactic. Your computer has 
		now stored a malignant little piece of code that when read, maybe 
		through a common memory sweep, has a code in it that causes the 
		computer to execute it as a background process. Once that's done,
		'Lost' runs around your directory structure looking for your navigation
		programs and corrupts them real good so that they work, but all wrong.
		So, now your running through the universe without a clue as to where`
		you are. By the time you realize, your lost. 
			Now, your Science officer gets an inkling that you've been
		sabotaged, so he runs a listing of processes. Only 24,456 copies of
		job 'Lost' running concurrently. So, he shuts down Maira and brings
		up Migs, your second model 9. Of course, Migs has to be booted, and
		in the process comes across that copy of Lost in the boot sector. Not
		to mention, that if they do manage to remove the virus from the boot
		sector, its all over common storage anyway. And what of your Nav
		programs? They're screwed also. 

	Can you say Crash and Burn? Yep. Well, actually, if you boot from a
	protected backup copy of your operating system, you may get Maira up and
	running, but the moment that you access common storage, with all your
	shipboard information on it, you come across the virus again. Hope you
	got a vaccine program handy. Or, do you want to just WIPE common storage
	completely and rebuild from protected backups (That'll probably take you
	about two days. Nasty!!). So, sorry Scott. Not quite as simple as all that.
	Now, the scenario I ran above is possible today. In say another 5000 years,
	imagine the horrible little routines they'll be writing.

															Ciao,
															Anthony Neal

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@garfield.cs.mun.ca  | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and... What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2932
Date: 	Fri, 27 Sep 1991 11:58:11 -0230
From: Anthony Neal <uunet!pluto.cs.mun.ca!anthonyn@sequent.UUCP>
Subject: And what about computers anyway!


	Yeah, it's me again.

		After my last note, I thought about the system and the lack
	of development of computer equipment and the role of computers in the
	Traveller society. I mean, today we're pretty well swamped by these
	little technological pets as it is, what about 5000 years down the
	road? What programs are available and how good are they? What does
	the average Imperial citizen do per day that involves direct inter-
	action with computers.

		And what of the computer hacker?!? Is he alive and well
		in the future, or has he/she (sorry --^) starving with
		only an 8088 at his disposal... 

		I would really like to see a little more computer use in the
	Traveller system, since it seems to me that they are too flexible a 
	thing to just die out. The rules seem to treat them in the fashion of
	"Yeah, they're there, just don't ask me about them...". 

		And what of robots? MT mentions them in the Imperial Encyclo-
		pedia (?) but we don't have any examples or constuction rules
		to go by, except for the fabled "Robots" booklet, which I have
		had on order for over a year, but has never come in.

		Us Technorganisms have to have our computers and robots or else
	we get real cranky. I've tried improvising, even raiding a few things
	from GURPS and 2300. (By the way, GURPS Cyberpunk has the best system
	on computers I've seen so far. I tried adapting it but got a headache
	real quick.)

		So, a desperate plea goes to the masses of the TML... Where's
	my workstation?... Where's my C3PO, or R2-D2? 

							Ciao,
							Anthony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anthony Neal                 |"Lets bring up the cargo manifest. 2300 laser 
anthonyn@garfield.cs.mun.ca  | pistols, 1600 laser rifles, 1 ATV, 67 suits of
Memorial University Of       | combat armor and... What the hell are 
Newfoundland                 | 'tribbles'?"
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2933
Date: Friday 27th September 1991 11:31:08 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: (2913) What's with this computer virus story?

 
>From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
 
>                             I just assumed that in 5000 years the Imperium
>would have some damn good countermeasures against viruses.
 
Agreed.  I believe that a well-designed and competently-managed computer
system can be made effectively invulnerable to viruses, and I think that
attempts to do this are soon going to become a major selling point here
in the 20th century.  Surely by the 57th century the need for suitable
defensive measures will be taken for granted.
 
 
>I dislike the messing about in the universe GDW is rumored to be considering.
>Frankly, I don't like the Rebellion either!
 
Heartily agreed.  We have had more than enough upheaval already.  If
GDW really wants to proceed with this Star Viking stuff, I would be
much happier if they set it in a completely different game universe
rather than twisting our beloved Traveller universe to fit it.
 
>This looks like a BIG mistake to me.
 
Me too.
 
> Scott Kellogg
> - -One of the three Hordesmen of the apocolypse
 
I've Horde enough of these awful puns!
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2934
Date:     Fri, 27 Sep 91 15:54:53 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  An eclectic assortment

It's been a slow day, and I have been fiddling with things again.



Fakh Goudza Grav Fighting Vehicle TL13 (Vargr)

     The Fakh Goudza is a general purpose grav fighting vehicle manufactured 
by several planets in the Vargr Extents.  Its name is taken from a large 
carnivorous bird on the planet of its design.  It bears certain similarities 
to the Imperial Gryphon GFV, but is intended to have an auxiliary role as a 
troop carrier.  Roomy seats allow four infantrymen in battledress with grav 
belts to be deployed when advantageous.  It also carries a non-homogeneous 
computer array, with a Model 4 available for control of combat operations.  
The Fakh Goudza's armor and controls are space rated, and the vehicle can be 
launched from orbit for a planetary assault operation. Armament is laid out 
"over and under", with the pulse laser in a remote turret on the upper sur-
face of the vehicle, and the fusion gun in a turret on the lower surface. The 
two smaller lasers are mounted in side sponsons, and are intended for anti-
personnel use.

  CraftID: Fakh Goudza GFV, TL13, MCr18.76
     Hull: 6/14, Disp=6, Config=1AF(+ turret, 10%), Armor=55F, Loaded=288.5t,
           Unload=288.3t
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=252MW, Dur=20 hours
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=700t, Max Speed=1590kph, Cruise=1395kph, NOE=170kph,
           MaxAccel=1.43G
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit, MaserComm=Planetary
  Sensors: EMM, EMS Active(Continental), EMS Passive(Interplanetary),
           LowPenDensitometer(50m), NeutrinoSensor(100kw), ActObjScan=Diff, 
           ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout, PassEnPin=Diff, PassObjScan=Diff,
           PassObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1

                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                       Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
         Fusion-Y Gun  71/5    30  VDist(21)  2     45     H     40
    100MW Pulse Laser  59/4   120   Reg(250)  3      -     L     80
   2*10MW Pulse Laser  33/3    12  VDist(50)  3      -     L     80

      Def: Point Defense Targeting for 100MW pulse laser
  Control: Comp Mod0*2, Comp Mod4*1, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*2
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*6 (Commander/Gunner, Pilot, 4 passengers), Env=basic
           env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=2.8kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

Coriander class Free Trader TL12

     The Coriander class Free Trader is a standard Imperial Data Package 
design, although it is not often built because of its rather unusual 300 ton 
hull.  Most shipyard equipment is specialized for either the 200 or the 400 
ton standard hulls.  The standard version of the Coriander includes two 
triple missile turrets and a triple sandcaster turret for self-defense.  Fuel 
scoops are carried for emergency use, but the usual operating practice would 
be to purchase unrefined fuel immediately upon landing at a starport, and 
process it while cargo loading and unloading is going on. Common variations 
on the design include removing the low berths in favor of an additional 270kl 
of cargo space, and adding a berth for some sort of subsidiary craft.

  CraftID: Coriander class Free Trader, TL12, MCr103.3  (MCr82.65 discount)
     Hull: 270/675, Disp=300t, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Loaded=3960t,
           Unloaded=2595t
    Power: 11/22, Fusion=960MW, Duration=30 days 
     Loco: 9/18, Maneuver=1.5 (Thrusters=6500t), 9/18, Jump=2,
           MaxSpeed=720kph, Cruise=540kph, TrueAcc=1.64G, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System*2
  Sensors: EMS Active(FarOrbit), EMS Passive(Interplanetary), 
           ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoints=3

               Missiles=x02
           Batteries      2
           Bearing        2

      Def: DefDM+4

               SandCaster=x04
           Batteries        1
           Bearing          1

  Control: Computer Mod2*3, 5*HeadsUpDisplay, 470*DynLink
    Accom: Crew=7 (1 bridge, 1 engineer, 1 steward, 3 gunners, 1 medic),
           Passengers=8, Staterooms=15, LowPassengers=20, LowBerths=20, 
           Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=960kl (1 jump-2+30 days), Cargo=1290kl, MissileMagazine=12kl 
           (20b-r), Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier (24hr), ObjSize=Avg, 
           EmLevel=Faint

Hyperbolic Light Air Raft TL14 (Military Version)

     The Hyperbolic is a low cost grav vehicle intended for military light 
utility work.  With a sealed cabin, it can operate in contaminated environ-
ments, and a laser communicator provides jam-resistant comm capability for 
the users.  Up to 0.5 tons of cargo can be carried externally with no loss of 
performance.  
  
  CraftID: Hyperbolic Light Air Raft, TL14, Cr99,300
     Hull: 1/3, Disp=1.4, Conf=4SL, Armor=1G, Loaded=4.22t,
           Unloaded=2.46t
    Power: 1/2, FuelCell*10=1.35MW, Dur=10 days
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=9t, TopSpeed=1000kph, Cruise=750kph,
           NOE=180kph, MaxAccel=1.13G
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km), LaserComm=Regional(500km)
  Sensors: ActEMS=Dist(5km), ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1, No weapons
      Def: -
  Control: Electronic*28
    Accom: Seats=Adequate*4, Env=basic env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=0.96kl, Cargo=1.7kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate 

Hyperbolic Light Air Raft TL14 (Civilian Version)

     The Hyperbolic is a low cost grav vehicle intended for military light 
utility work.  Because of its popularity with the general public, a civilian-
ized version with reduced electronics is also produced. The civilian version 
has a smaller power plant, and features a larger seat for the driver and an 
expanded cargo compartment, but is externally identical.  
  
  CraftID: Hyperbolic Light Air Raft, TL14, Cr35,830
     Hull: 1/3, Disp=1.4, Conf=4SL, Armor=1G, Loaded=4.90t,
           Unloaded=1.83t
    Power: 1/2, FuelCell*7=0.945MW, Dur=14 days
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=9t, TopSpeed=960kph, Cruise=720kph,
           NOE=40kph, MaxAccel=0.83G
     Comm: Radio=Regional(500km)
  Sensors: Radar=Dist(5km), ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1, No weapons
      Def: -
  Control: Electronic*10
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*1, Adequate*3, Env=basic env
    Other: Fuel=0.96kl, Cargo=3kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2935
From: whservd!gsw@att.att.COM
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 91 17:08 EDT
Subject: Re: NewTraveller

By the way, Classic Coke is NOT the same as "pre-New Coke" Coke --
they changed the formula to make it cheaper.  Isn't THAT a kicker!

=====

I have three concerns about NewTraveller:
 o Is vehicle/spaceship design going to be impossible?  I don't care if
   they give you a system to do it or not, as long as they don't make it
   impossible to do.
 o Is combat going to be oversurvivable?
 o I combat going to be overemphasized?  I make this separate because the
   original Traveller fell into this trap with Mercenary, etc.  I've been
   to a number of Traveller convention games, and 90% are mercenary
   tickets.  If you don't design your character with Book 4, you're DEAD.

I have heard all three of the above of T:2000.  If they fix these, and
don't do another half-assed job pulling it all together, then I say go
ahead, change the system.  But DON'T give me half of a system, then try to
sell me a new rules supplement every few months.  That would be my message
to GDW.

The virus thing is ridiculous.  Sure, it'll happen.  Someone will write
a virus that learns how to replicate itself and adapt.  But if I'm on a
spaceship, I'm going to make DAMNED SURE that the computer keeping ME
ALIVE is not susceptible in this way.  In fact, a variation of the same
virus will let me insure this.  But I'll let that one go, since it is,
after all, a game.  In fact, it could bring the scope of the game back
down to where it belongs.  No more fighting grand battles in the name of
the [fill in your favorite faction/government/race here].  Huzzah!

=====

Jerry Williams (gsw@gummo.att.com)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2936
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 91 00:24:06 PDT
Subject: Roche Limit

 
PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU writes:
 
>>The "--" notes the number of rings, number of moons.  I determine
>>number of sattelites, randomly figure the orbits, and shatter
>>any that fall within the roche limit.
>>
>
>Ahhh, yes.  The Roche limit.  I read many years ago, that Luna is inside
>Terra's Roche Limit, yet Luna doesn't break up from tidal stresses.  Does
>anyone know if that question has been settled?  Not being a planetologist
>type, I sort of lost track of the question.
>
>
>Paul.
 
  Roche limit is quoted (in the Britannica) to be 2.5 diameters of the
primary. The 380 odd thousand kilometers of Luna's orbit are quite outside
the limit.
 
Marc.
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2937
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: And what about computers anyway
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 91 10:51:22 MET DST

> From: Anthony Neal <uunet!pluto.cs.mun.ca!anthonyn@sequent.UUCP>
> Subject: (2932) And what about computers anyway!
> 
> 	Yeah, it's me again.
> 
> 		After my last note, I thought about the system and the lack
> 	of development of computer equipment and the role of computers in the
> 	Traveller society. I mean, today we're pretty well swamped by these
> 	little technological pets as it is, what about 5000 years down the
> 	road? What programs are available and how good are they? What does
> 	the average Imperial citizen do per day that involves direct inter-
> 	action with computers.

  There are (presently) two different versions of how to use computers in the
future: The first is the classic cyberspace or matrix where you put the human
in the computer, the second is to put the computers in the environment.
  There is a good article in the September Scientific American (special 
edition about networks and computers) on the second version. Xerox is as usual
doing interesting things at Palo Alto. I wonder how long until Apple steals it
and sues Xerox for it? :)
 
  In short the 'computers in the environment' idea is to computerize the
environment with computerized papers, notes and boards all networked togeather
with short range radio or ir links and all working transparantely.
  And since cyberpunk is more or less absent from Traveller, this might be a
way to explain it.

> 	The rules seem to treat them in the fashion of
> 	"Yeah, they're there, just don't ask me about them...". 

  That is close to what 'computers in the environment' tries to do. There
would however be severe effects if someone who is trained to depend on 
ubiquitous computers had to work without them. (That might be a rationalization
of the severe TL effects on skills...)
 
  But, read the Palo Alto article in Scientific American, I can infact recommend
that entire issue, even though I neither work for Xerox or Scientific American:)

> 							Anthony

- -bertil-
- -- 
'Det a"r oo"versa"ttbart...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2938
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 91 13:54:07 PDT
Subject: 2300AD missiles


Hello,

	Has anyone ever tried to calculate the missle warp efficiency?
Not ONE of the missiles conforms to the rules of the warp calculation.
When the speed is correct, the weight is wildly off.

Can anyone explain?

Marc

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

